Michael Van Canneyt ha scritto:
On Thu, 2 Aug 2007, David Lyon wrote:
David Lyon is currently finding out costs to set up a non-profit
organization in Germany.
In the meantime I suggest that we draw a list of active supporters, to:
1) Finance the registration costs.
2) Be available to be 'member of the board', or to hold some of the official
positions required by the law.
3) Be available to carry on administrative duties.
I don't know the German law. In Italy a non-profit has very low registration
costs and very light administrative duties, but a number of persons which
take responsibility is required.
I am checking with some Lawyers in Germany but I am fast getting the
impression that it is not cheap.
As in most countries, the registration cost itself is not expensive. It is all
the support paperwork that needs to be done to comply with all the
requirements. This takes time, and lawyers normally already have it all done
(by a legal secretary at a low wage) and then resell it when they can. When
it comes to Law, Lawyers usually have you over a barrel. And if you ever want
to fight them, guess what, you need to hire another lawyer. Being friends with
them and paying them a reasonable fee is always what I recomend. Cheapest
option in the long term.
The costs that I am hearing are roughly 2500 euro for legal costs for Germany.
Obviously, a diy (do it solution) is going to be cheaper. But that has certain
risks.
What are the risks ?
Unfortunately, you can't get three written quotes from three different laywers
and go with the middle quote. They just don't work that way.
If there is an opportunity to do the registration of a non-profit in Italy, I
would recommend doing that.
Seeing that none of the core developers is located in Italy, that would seem
rather awkward to me.
Let's try to put some facts together. An ambitious goal for financing
the Lazarus foundation would be to have one hundred subscribers to svn
updates the first year. At 100 € each, this wold make 10000 € (less
expenses, like PayPal or equivalent service costs) which could be
adequate as a bonus to a few penniless students which could do some
useful things, but totally inadequate for hiring any kind of
professional. Lazarus is based on voluntary work, Lazarus foundation
can't afford to do otherwise. If it fulfills its goals and succeeds in
spreading Lazarus usage, then things may change, but we must stick to
present.
Almost everywhere, in order to set up a non-profit, you need two
important documents. A charter, which describes the goals of the
foundation, and its basic rules, and the protocol of the foundation
meeting, signed by the founding members. Both those documents (but the
charter is the most important) must follow two criteria: express the
will of the founding members, and cover all legal aspects, to avoid
unpleasant consequences.
Unpleasant consequences can be of different kinds.
In good faith the foundation performs an action, such as collecting
money, paying for some service, advertising,etc. and it turns out that
this action isn't permitted by the chart as it's phrased, and therefore
the individual who signed the act is personally liable. He may be forced
to pay the income tax on money collected from the foundation, pay a
fine, and similar amenities.
There's a disagreement between members on a topic, but it turns out that
the charter doesn't cover such a situation, and therefore the foundation
is paralyzed.
Michael Van Canneyt took part to the foundation meeting, properly signed
the protocol, but when he tries to act as a member it turns out that the
protocol was phrased in such a way as to make his membership invalid.
This could be very annoying if he's taken some engagements in accordance
with the other members in behalf of the foundation, and it turns out
that those engagements have no legal value, or, even worse, are legally
just personal engagements.
I believe that I gave a quick idea of what risks a too bold diy approach
would involve.
That's why legal advice is highly recommended, but, because of the
previous consideration, legal advice should be obtained on voluntary basis.
Fearing David's findings, I had made a search among friends, to find out
one who's set up a non-profit (unfortunately, here in Italy). We may get
his charter and protocol set up by a lawyer (they're fairly standardized
documents, little changes would be required). But, what's more
important, we might get free legal advice from his cousin, who's the
lawyer in question, to have our changes verified. In that case I figure
that we'd better keep for ourselves our opinions about lawyers (mine
aren't very different from David's) ;-)
Is it just my luck, or someone else could possibly find similar
resources among his entourage in the country of some core developer?
Well, Friday I'm leaving for my holidays. Most likely you won't hear
from me the next three weeks.
I leave to all members of this mailing list living in Germany, The
Netherlands and other countries of core developers to find out voluntary
legal help in setting up a non-profit.
If nothing else pops up, then we may give a second look to the awkward
(I agree) Italian solution.
Giuliano
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