On 4/5/07, Sean M. Cox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
*[[Mormons]], followers of the various churches of the [[Latter Day
Saint movement]], who believe in the unity in purpose of the Godhead
but that Jesus is a divine being distinct from, and created by, God the
Father, but similar in every other respect (thus roughly
[[Homoiousian]] rather than [[Anomoean]]). Thus, Jesus is literally
(spiritually) the Firstborn of the Father. Also in line with Arianism,
Mormons believe that the pre-incarnate Jesus (the Logos of John 1)
created the Earth under the direction of the Father. In fact, they go
further than most on this point, equating the pre-existent Jesus with
Jehovah, the God of the Old Testament (perhaps as a spokesman for the
Father, for whom they reserve the Old Testament title Elohim). Although
the LDS Church views the doctrinal schisms of the late Roman Empire as
a sure sign of the [[Great Apostasy]], they do not officially claim any
allegiance to Arius.
(original description from Wikipedia)
My point was that was not "in-line with Arianism", nor did it show how
it was in line with Arianism. I see no reference to Arius' teachings
that supports that doctrine. If that was supported with non-original
sources, maybe I would agree with it more, but to me it seems it is
just trying to make a point that we have teachings similar to Arius',
which I do not believe is the case, and can support with non-original
sources.
While maybe it was inappropriate to mention the Nicene creed in a
public forum, I highly suggest all read the wording of the original
Nicene creed. While of man, and not inspired, I believe it was a good
reflection of what the early Christian church believed - in fact,
President Hinckley encouraged church members to read it, and compare
it against the vision that Joseph Smith had. The wording does not
specifically state that God the Father and Christ are one being in
digit form as the current Christian world believes it to mean, nor
does it suggest that the Father and the Son are spirits as is defined
by other Christians. It states the Son is of the "same substance" as
the Father, aka, in our belief, they both have a body, and that the
Son was "begotten, not made" - aka the Son was eternal even before
this life. The Nicene creed was put in effect to answer Arian claims
that the Son was created out of nothing, "made". The final part of
the creed states "But as for those who say, There was when he was not
(aka there was a time when he was not), and, Before being born he was
not, and that he came into existence out of nothing, or who assert
that the Son of God is of a different hypostasis (there is some
evidence this word was suggested to be added by the Emporer
Constantine, and is the only contribution by himself) or substance, or
who is subject to alteration or change -- these the Catholic (in those
days this meant "Universal") and apostolic Church anathemetises."
That final paragraph I think summarizes a lot of what the Arian church
was teaching at the time. I think based on the wording, and our
understanding based on the vision of Joseph Smith, we pretty much
agree with most of that. It's all about how one interprets it, hence
why Mormons do not subscribe to the Nicene creed - the Joseph Smith
vision is just so much clearer, and inspired of God, not man!
President Hinckley suggested when talking about our faith we invite
others to bring all the truth from their faith and let us add to it!
I think this is an example where that can happen. While we do not
subscribe to the Nicene creed, through Joseph Smith's vision in the
sacred grove we have a much clearer vision of what the Nicene creed
was trying to say, and therefore a better vision of what Arius was
actually teaching that was so blasphemous. The Nicene creed, when
clarified by Joseph Smith's vision of the Father and the Son, only
makes me more proud of the truthfulness of our faith.
Okay, I realize not all that would be put in a wikipedia article - I
think my first paragraph sums up my point in wanting to remove it or
clarify from a wikipedia standpoint.
Jesse
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