On Sun, Jul 20, 2003 at 11:21:28AM -0500, Charles Steinkuehler wrote:
> Matt Schalit wrote:

> > > http://bund.dk/blinder

> >That's awesome.  Really good stuff.  Close to what I
> >was posting about.  You even have some sort of
> >rudimentary input, the kill switches you added to
> >the blinds.

Thanks :)

> >Charles hasn't posted on this thread, but he may not
> >have seen it.  Too bad because he built a Battle Bot
> >and has quite a bit of computer interfacing
> >experience.
> 
> OK, OK...hint taken. :)

:D
 
> >I got in A's in Analog Lab, Digital Lab, and in Computer
> >Interfacing, but he's actually doing it in real life
> >having to deal with Voltage converters, grounding planes,
> >filters, the whole gamut.  How much fun is that?

A lot?

> >What's cool about the GP-3 is that it does the stepper
> >motor control already, along with tons of other good
> >stuff.  I was sort of surprised it was only $35 US.
> >I could run a farm with that little thing.
> 
> For cheap & easy DAC output from your PC, use the pre-existing ports. 

I was unemployed at the time, so reason #1 weighed heavily. I wouldn't
really have agreed with #2 at the time, but then, I don't know squat about
electronics. (Sure I can solder, but...)

> The audio output ports for dynamic signals (although you won't typically 
> get DC output levels without shorting across the output caps and adding 
> some level-shifting circuitry to deal with the typical 1.5-2.5 V offset).

I would have thought exactly that; If it needs to become analog, why not use
a soundcard?
 
> NOTE:  If you really want to smoothly drive stepper moters with a PC, 
> you either need smart hardware or you'll quickly find out why linux (and 
> most other general purpose OS's) are not considered "real-time".  The 
> stepper motors will *NOT* be happy when the pulses don't come out at 
> exactly the wrong time, and you *WILL* notice the "glitch" in smooth 
> movement, by feel and/or by sound.  A bit of timing uncertiancy is not 
> that bad (especially if you can compensate for it with the software 
> generating the drive waveforms...motors have a *MUCH* slower response 
> time than modern CPUs), but you can't just call the system sleep routine 
> for a time delay and expect nice, clean waveform timing on output.

Actually sleep comes in too large chunks. What I do is read the parallelport
a calculated number of times per 'full-sequence', to get the slowdown. I
read somewhere that this read takes approx. X microseconds so I just
multiplied X by so and so much. It's not actually that precise, but at 5:30
in the morning, believe me, I don't notice ;)

> This is really an instance where a $2 8-bit MCU with a couple of PWM or 
> timer outputs can solve a problem better than a GHz+ CPU. :)

Well... In this particular case (a ~25 MHz 486) I doubt it will ever be
smooth as in "silk"... But it's not really that important for this
application.

> > > I just picked up development a couple of days ago. Basically the bit 
> > > drives the stepper motor is a script that pushes out bit-sequences of 
> > > parallelport. But being a script (and not particularly well written, at
> > > that) it makes for some jerky motion of the motor, which I think is in 
> > > responsible for the two mechanical failures it has suffered in the year 
> > > been running. (Plastic fatique).
 
> See NOTE:, above.

Noted.
 
> >I sort of thought that you just tell those stepper motors
> >to slew and use an infra-red transmitter/pickup system that
> >counts the times the IR beam is interrupted as it shines through
> >the slits in the stepper's axel mounted circular disk.

On the contrary, as Charles explains below;

> >And I thought you pretty much used the stepping feature
> >for "fine" positioning....
> 
> Stepper motors require proper sequencing of the drive waveforms.  They 
> are not real picky about signal timing if they're not actually moving 
> very fast, but you *DO* need to provide for acceleration/deceleration 
> ramping and if the motor is actually rotating with any speed, it will 
> not react well to out of phase drive signals, potentially putting lots 
> of strain on the drive electronics and/or mechanical drive system.

Ramping... Never thought of that... That's a very nice piece of input. I
shall keep it in mind, when I get around to the testruns of the binary I'm
building. I'm pretty anxious to see how fast full-tilt is going to be ;)

> Also, I'm not sure what you mean by the "stepping feature" only being 
> used for fine positioning.  You *HAVE* to "step" stepper motors...that's 
> how they work.  You can't simply hook a stepper motor up to power and 
> get it to turn (at least not more than one step).  Getting a stepper 
> motor to rotate *REQUIRES* a properly timed dynamic drive signal.
> 
> If you're referring to "micro-stepping", or driving the stepper coils 
> with something other than full voltage, this technique is useful even if 
> you don't need it for fine positioning.  If you think about how a 
> stepper motor works, the "steps" correspond to different arrangements of 
> the drive coils being fully energized.  At all the points in-between the 
> natural steps of the motor, the different drive coils need to be 
> partially energized (think sine-waves).  While it's not required that 
> you drive stepper motor coils with a sine-wave like signal, it will 
> proivde smooter rotation, especially at lower speeds.

Hmmm... but no. Not this time around ;)

> >I love the real world, learn-by-destruction feedback
> >you're getting.  I'd like to model that in autocad :)
> 
> There's nothing like the real world to teach you how everything REALLY 
> works (or just as importantly doesn't work). :)

So very, very true

/Jon
-- 
If we can't be free, at least we can be cheap!


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