Hello once again,
I ask some questions from my accountant about cases when she uses editing.
But before we go into that, I really appreciate the hard work Erik and
others have done and all I say here is meant as discussion points not
critique. Also, we are really stuck with 1.2 version... which has not been
developed many years already... one side it's great as everything works the
same way all this time. Less time needed from my side to support users. But
I question... how long it takes before something happens.
So I read Erik's answer to Marjan: "Some background: while the people
speaking up here generally work for single-person businesses (by their own
words), LedgerSMB is also being used by businesses (of o1bigtenor seems to
be an example) who *do* require these anti-fraud measures, audit trails and
cumulative-only posting system."
This is BIG. We use LedgerSMB mostly as one person system. Or two person...
one enters data, the other checks afterwards.
Also on BIG piece of information I forgot before - most cases we use
LedgerSMB to do accounting after the fact. That means our clients use their
own systems or just excel or libreoffice calc and they bring us all their
sales invoices and purchase invoices once a month or once a year. My person
just enters all of it to LedgerSMB, so we would get balance sheet and
income statement. None of this information is sent to clients. They already
have their invoices. When we do it once month, then VAT report is also
generated based on data from LedgerSMB.
So when they do mistakes, these are mistakes.. they just entered the wrong
date... wrong number... wrong client... wrong account... editing this
document doesn't affect the original document.
My accountant gave me some examples... she was entering yesterday data for
different customers... for one she was doing annual report for 2014, for
another 2015 and for next one entering data for april 2016. So by entering
2014 she entered six documents with 2016 date by mistake. After she was
checking work done, she found these mistakes and repaired the date and
saved these documents again. All done, all correct. In the end 2016 is
empty. Doing it like Erik suggested using credit invoices would leave some
data to 2016 period which has nothing to do with it. Sorry, nothing
personal, this is just real life.
Another BIG one for us. We do accounting also with some other programs like
HansaWorld. We have built up our pricelist so that when we use something
else than LedgerSMB it's double the price. We measured how much time it
takes to enter data into LedgerSMB vs HansaWorld and LedgerSMB takes half
the time generally. So we offer better price based on that... we charge for
number of entries. Moving over to work process mentioned by Erik would mean
that it would slow work down to the same level like it is with other
programs. Can't do it. That would mean hiring more people or letting half
the customers go.
But I give You some more real life cases... maybe these help to understand
different situations... it's not a final list... these are just the cases
that I got as examples from one of my accountant...
With purchase transactions she choses one account at first and in some
cases it needs to be changed afterwards. We also use expense account like
"Document is missing" and then in the end send this list to customer ask
for documents. When we receive them we change the account and save it
again. Some times we check and change things in the end of year when
customer decides some thing need to be assets not expenses or opposite.
Next one: double copies of client / vendor. Quite often it happens that for
various reasons there has been saved the same company for multiple times.
So when it comes out we resave documents under one customer or vendor and
delete duplicate.
Another BIG one: VAT
Invoice has one date, but expense is for another period.
Example: Invoice is sent out on 10th of May for services in April. When
Invoice goes out it's ok to have it with May date, but for VAT purposes it
has to be declared for April. So we change the date later on to 30th of
April, so it get's to be in the right period. This is actual demand from
Tax authorities that this invoice is April declaration.
I have seen in some programs that they have two dates for each document.
One as Invoice date and another for VAT purposes.
Another VAT issue: LedgerSMB doesn't know the difference between 0% VAT and
VAT FREE.
So far we have handled this issue manually, but it's a huge difference. For
those who don't know the difference, let me explain as short as I can:
0% VAT is mostly export inside European union or outside and it gets
declared separately. It doesn't affect purchase VAT.
VAT FREE is completely different. It is applied for rents (real estate),
investment gold, postal service, insurance, interest, etc. When company
sells VAT FREE then for purchases related to those activities they are not
allowed to ask back VAT.
And our "favorite" - mix of both type of sales, both with VAT and VAT FREE.
Which means for some purchases 100% VAT gets asked back, for some some
other percentage and for some nothing.
To bring it all together:
As one-person system we need editing of all documents.
For mid-size companies where are many employees they need to have zero
possibility to change something after the fact.
*Can both of these scenarios exist in LedgerSMB? Or we also better start
looking for something else which fits with our one-person system needs.*
LedgerSMB user right from the beginning,
Peeter Pärtel
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