im starting to severely dislike old pete. hes a twat. Eric
On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 5:56 PM, Rick Duniec <[email protected]> wrote: > New post on Football Management > > Deconstructing Peter Lorimer > by John Beech > > Peter Lorimer's thoughts on fans being on the boards of football clubs (1) > were, at least as reported by the BBC, somewhat confusing and even confused. > Certainly his assertion that he does not envisage a member of the > Supporters Trust having a place on the Leeds United board is hardly a > surprise given the way that Chairman Bates views fans (2). In fact, it's no > more 'news' than would be David Cameron announcing that he could not > envisage an Argentinean having a place on the Port Stanley Parish Council. > As Lorimer said, "People put a lot of money in and they're entitled to run > the club as they want." I was reminded of the Ingram brothers and their > long-running confrontation with the Yeltz Supporters Trust (3). To many on > the owners' side of football's divide, legal ownership is simply about the > right to control, and there is no recognition of the fans' perspective of > psychological ownership. There are exceptions - most notably that at > Arsenal, where the notion of being 'custodian' rather than 'owner' has a > long history - but their numbers are few. > In other words, Lorimer simply pointed out that current owners, be they > 'benefactors' or investors, see Supporters Trusts as the natural enemy, > because they want to take over the company running the club. As Basil > Fawlty once put it, a 'statement of the bleeding obvious'. > What was confused and confusing with his comments were his attempts to add > a rationale to the argument - one that doesn't need to be there, and, in > the case of his comments, is a flawed rationale. > He was quoted as saying with respect to having members of the Supporters > Trust on the board of a club "For me it's never worked at any club" and "I > just don't think it works on a whole scale. I've seen a number of occasions > where fans have ended up running a club and it's ended in disaster.". > I can only think of one case that I would consider to have ended in > disaster, which was that of Notts County, where the Supporters Trust was > all but conned out of ownership (4 and postings passim). Another case that > was not an unmitigated success was that at Bournemouth, with the Supporters > Trust having to give up control of the club as it continued to struggle > financially (5). > Incidentally, while digging the last link out of my files, I came across > the following snippet for The Independent of 12 January 1993. I reproduce > it without comment as it may be of interest to those who followed a recent > unsuccessful prosecution: > A PAYMENT of £100,000 made to Harry Redknapp, West Ham's assistant > manager, when he left Bournemouth last summer was paid personally by the > chairman of the south coast club. Norman Hayward gave Redknapp the gift > when he left the club after nine years in charge. Bournemouth had been > swamped with angry calls and letters from fans who threatened a boycott > when it was made known how much Redknapp was receiving at a time when the > club was fighting for survival with debts of £2.6m. Hayward said yesterday > the payment came from his own ''personal funds''. > But I digress. > The Bournemouth case, at least in wider context, is typical of clubs when > Supporters Trusts take over - they almost invariably do so in the direst of > circumstances. 'Benefactors' and investors take over in a variety of > financial circumstances, so any comparison is automatically weighted > against the Supporters Trusts being successful. > To be clear though, there are numerous examples of Supporters Trusts > turning a club round. It is easy to fail to appreciate the numbers > involved, especially as many cases are further down the pyramid. Recent > data from Supporters Direct shows the following clubs with Supporters Trust > shareholdings (%): > AFC Telford United100 > Chester FC100 > Enfield Town100 > FC United of Manchester100 > Gretna100 > Hendon100 > Merthyr Town FC100 > Runcorn100 > Scarborough100 > Fisher FC100 > Clydebank99.99 > Inverness Clachnacuddin76 > AFC Wimbledon72 > Exeter City63 > Brentford60 > Newport (IOW)51 > Chesham United45 > Aylesbury United38 > Clyde32 > Dundee26 > Carlisle United25.37 > Dover Athletic25.1 > Lincoln City25 > York City25 > > etc. etc., including Swansea City. In total, 95 English and Scottish > football clubs are run by companies with Supporters Trust shareholders. 68 > clubs have a Supporters' Trust director on the board. The following are > fully supporter-owned: AFC Telford United; AFC Wimbledon; Brentford; > Chesham United; Chester FC; Clyde; Clydebank; Crusaders (Northern Ireland); > Enfield Town; Exeter City; FC United of Manchester; Fisher FC; Gretna; > Hendon; Merthyr Town FC; Newark Town; Prescott Cables; Runcorn; > Scarborough; Stenhousemuir; Stirling Albion; and most recently, Lewes and > AFC Rushden and Diamonds. There may well be more - please comment if I've > missed any from these lists. > This hardly squares with Lorimer's claim that "it's never worked at any > club". More to the point, I wonder whether he really believes that > 'benefactors' or investors are more likely to make a success of running a > club. My list of clubs that have suffered events is littered with the > failures of clubs that were NOT run by Supporters Trusts. > If Peter Lorimer really thinks that traditional owners make a better fist > of running clubs than Supporters Trusts, I can only recommend that he > starts reading a fascinating new series of postings by Ian King on the > twohundredpercent website - The 100 Most Controversial Football Club Owners > of All-Time. It will open his eyes. > ______________________________**_________________ > Leedslist mailing list > Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.** > uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist<http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist> > To unsubscribe, email > [email protected].**org<[email protected]> > > PETE CASS (1962 - 2011) Rest In Peace Mate > _______________________________________________ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email [email protected] PETE CASS (1962 - 2011) Rest In Peace Mate
