Hi everyone, I’m glad to see that this topic is up for discussion once again.
On March 29, 2008 I wrote: It seems to me that we have a problem, i.e. how do we register relatives that have become partners through the various statues (laws) in effect in the following Countries and States of the Union? Using the new Marriage Information Form we will be able to change the words "Husband" and "Wife" to read for example to "Partner" and "Partner" or "Husband" and "Husband" or "Wife" and "Wife". We will be able to change the used of the word "Marriage" to "Civil Union" or "Common Law Marriage" or "Domestic Partnership", etc. I asked Ken if it would be possible to register such "Civil Unions" were the partners are of the same gender. He said that it would not be possible at this time. I ask the question why it is not possible? We are able to change the wording in the new Marriage Information Form and if we can do that what's the problem? If we, for example, change the wording on the right side of the form from "Wife" to "Husband" and change the wording from "Marriage" to "Civil Union" we have, as I see it, registered a "Civil Union". We now have a Union between members of the same gender. I don't understand why this is a problem for Legacy? I don't understand what the problem is and would be grateful for an explanation. The following is a list of the Countries and States of the Union where some form of "Civil Union" is possible and this means that, as I see it, we have a problem. What is the solution to this problem? Civil union >From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia United States Jurisdictions in the U.S. that offer civil unions or domestic partnerships granting nearly all of the state-recognized rights of marriage to same-sex couples include Civil Unions in Vermont (2000), Domestic Partnerships in California (2000), Civil Unions in Connecticut (2005), Civil Unions in New Jersey (2007), Civil Unions in New Hampshire (2008), and Domestic Partnerships in Oregon (2008),[10] States in the U.S. with domestic partnerships or similar status granting some of the rights of marriage include Reciprocal Beneficiary Relationships in Hawaii (1997), Domestic Partnerships in the District of Columbia (1992/2002), Domestic Partnerships in Maine (2004), Domestic Partnerships in New Jersey (2004) (now available only for couples 62 and older), and Domestic Partnerships in Washington (2007). Massachusettsis the only state that offers same-sex marriage. Same-sex marriage was legalized in 2004 in Massachusetts, and on August 31, 2007 in Iowa. [11]Until further court review, Iowa does not permit same sex marriage. Canada In Canada: Domestic partnerships in Nova Scotia (2001), Civil unions in Quebec (2002), Common-law relationships in Manitoba (2002), and Adult interdependent relationships in Alberta (2003) were extended to same-sex couples before the enactment (2005) nationwide of same-sex marriage in Canada. Between June 2003 and June 2005, courts in eight provinces and one territory of Canada extended marriage to include same-sex couples. Latin America In Mexico: Mexico City (2006) and the state of Coahuila (2007). In South America: some parts of Brazil (2004), Argentine capital of Buenos Aires, Rio Negro Province (2003) and the city of Villa Carlos Paz (2007). Uruguay, nationwide (2007 Europe In Europe, Denmark (1989), Norway (1993), Sweden (1995), Iceland (1996), France (1999), Finland (2002), Portugal (2001), Germany (2001), Luxembourg (2004), Andorra (2005), United Kingdom (2005), the Czech Republic (2006), Slovenia (2006), and Switzerland (2007), Hungary (1996/2009). [13] In 2001, the Netherlandspassed a law allowing same-sex couples to marry, in addition to its 1998 "registered partnership" law (civil union) for both same-sex and opposite-sex couples. Belgium did likewise in 2003. Spain legalized same-sex marriage in 2005. On 31 October 2007, during a parliamentary debate in Dáil Éireann on an opposition Bill to introduce civil unions, the government of the Republic of Ireland announced that it will be introducing its own legislation to create civil unions in March 2008.[ Africa In Africa: South Africalegalized same-sex marriage in 2006; civil unions are also available to same-sex couples. Middle East Israel (1994 as common-law marriage; 2006 as recognition of foreign marriage). Asia Oceania In Oceania: New Zealand (2005) and all Australian jurisdictions (both states and territories) provide either a registered partnership / "Significant Relationships" or unregistered co-habitation - Including; New South Wales (unregistered co-habitation from 1999) Victoria (unregistered co-habitation from 2001; registered partnership from 2008) Northern Territory (unregistered co-habitation from 2004) Tasmania (unregistered co-habitation since 2002; "Significant Relationships" 2004) Western Australia (unregistered co-habitation from 2002) Queensland (unregistered co-habitation from 2003) Norfolk Island (unregistered co-habitation from 2006) South Australia (unregistered co-habitation from 2007) The Australian Capital Territory (unregistered co-habitation from 1994; Civil partnership from 2008). Under the Australian Commonwealth laws 58 pieces of legislation discriminate same-sex couples by using the term "member of the opposite sex" and same-sex marriage as well as civil unions/civil partnerships are banned also under Commonwealth law. On March 31, 2008 I wrote: A few more thoughts on this subject. The word genealogy is defined in The Concise Oxford Dictionary as "Account of decent from ancestor by enumeration of intermediate persons, pedigree". The Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary gives the following definition: "an account of the descent of a person, family, or group from an ancestor or from older forms". It seems to me, that another way of expressing this is the use of Family History. It seems to me that there are those have confused this with genetics i.e. a "Study of heredity and variation in animals and plants". If Legacy were a program that had as its main aim to record genetics then I would not be using the program to record my Family History. It seems to me that we, today, have a far more complex situation regarding statutes i.e. laws governing how individuals choose to regulate their relationships. In today's Sweden we have laws that govern marriage a union between a man and a woman, this is based on traditional relationships. We have a law governing cohabitation i.e. where two people choose to live together in a relationship where they live more or less the same as though they were married, but have chosen not to formalize this relationship. A man and a woman or a man and a man, or a woman and a woman can choose this form of relationship, simply by moving into a common apartment, condo or house. We, in Sweden, have changed our Marriage Statute allowing a man to marry a man and a women to marry a women. This, in my opinion, means that we genelogists are in the future are going to have to have a way of registering those relatives who choose one of these alternative forms of relationships. I have such a situation in my family, at present, (perhaps there are more that I am not aware of at present) and I wonder how I am to include this relationship in Legacy? For me this is not a theoretical problem, it is a practical problem. How am I, using Legacy, to register a new member of my family? When I am told that Legacy cannot at present handle this relationship what do I do? There is a function in Legacy that covers how to handle a child in such a relationship. If one right clicks on a child you get a menu there one can choose "Children's settings" which means you come to a form where you are able to choose "Child status" here one is able to choose from the following: None, Stillborn or Twin. There is another menu item called "Relationship to Father" and here one is able to choose from the following: Adopted, Biological, Challenged, Disproved, Foster, Guardian, Sealing or Step. There is also an item called "Relationship to Mother" which has the same choices as for "Relationship to Father". There are many family constellations. Most are possible to enter in Legacy, but not a relationship between a man and a man or a woman and a woman. In my opinion, this is a shortcoming in Legacy, and I think a very large one. The following is what Ken McGinnis of Millennia wrote: "From: "Ken McGinnis" <[email protected]> To: "Maurice A. LeBlanc" <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 1:32 PM Subject: Re: [Legacy-Francais] Enhancement request > It wasn't a moral issue. It was simply over looked in the early stages of > Legacy design. Currently there are all kinds of queries when collecting > spouses for a person. We look at the main person we want and get his > gender. That then tells us how to do the queries. If we had to look on > both sides of the marriage record (we have a Husband ID and a Wife ID > as > we call them) things would be a lot more complicated and would slow things > down quite a bit. This would hit all kinds of areas in Legacy and with > our current database design wouldn't be very efficient. We know this > issue has been important for many and will continue to grow in importance. > To implement it correctly would take quite a bit of work and would not > only affect Legacy but all of the current add-on programs. I guess > because of the complexity of a change at this point we have held off. At > some point the presure of things will force us to dive in and make the > changes required. > > Thanks > > Ken McGinnis > Millennia Corporation > [email protected] http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com [^] > We are changing the world of genealogy!" I would only add that, at present, it is possible to add a same sex relationship to Legacy 7, however, if you change anything, after having gone into access and changing the sex of the partner, Legacy will revert to its standard sex designation. As far as I know the following Family History software provides the ability to enter same sex relationships: The Master Genealogist, Rots Magic, Genbox, Gramps and a Swedish program Holger. There may be other programs that offer the ability to add a same sex relationship. Some of the above software use the same add on programs that are available with Legacy, so add-on programs cannot , in my opinion, be used as an excuse for not making the changes that are necessary to implement same sex relationship in Legacy. I do so hope that Legacy will make the necessary changes in Legacy 8 so that same sex relationships will be possible to enter. Have a nice day, Leonard Källbom, formerly Johnson -----Original Message----- From: John B. Lisle Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 8:32 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [LegacyTest] Re: [LegacyUG] connecting a couple together? Evert, I was at a show in Massachusetts last month for Millennia, and we had several people ask about this. It is an issue in many parts of the US, as it is in many other countries. I will accept that the current implementation of Legacy would make same sex couples difficult to implement. However, I do not think that when they do the major re-write (which might start with L8???), they can leave it out. After all, this is a family history program and same sex relationship, even if a formal marriage is not involved, have been openly with our culture now for several decades. I believe that there is a workaround to create a same sex relationship in L7, but it is not simple to do and is "fragile". I have not yet tried to find it again. john. At 02:02 AM 5/16/2011, Evert van Dijken wrote: >If this is true I'll have to think about if I still want to be a >beta-tester and translator for Legacy. >Legacy did a lot of rewriting of code to make nFS work, so why not >rewrite code to make same sex marriages possible? >(and please don't use the add on programs as an excuse!) >Does legacy 8 has the possiblility to have same sex marriages? >Evert > >2011/5/15 mbstx <[email protected]>: > > At a meeting in Dallas a few years ago, > before the release of V 7.0, the Legacy rep > stated that Legacy will never allow the > capability of recording a same sex marriage. > > > > -----Original Message----- > >>From: Denis Xenos <[email protected]> > >>Sent: May 15, 2011 2:17 PM > >>To: [email protected] > >>Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] connecting a couple together? > >> > >>In 2007 I was helping with demos with Family Tree Maker, Brother's > >>Keeper, and Legacy. I was asked this very same question. I was able to > >>do it by A) making one of the females a male B) marry them C) then > >>change the male to a female. This was first time I tried it and it > >>worked like a charm. I cannot remember which software package I used, > >>but I will look in my old software drawer. > >> > >>I tried the same procedure in Legacy 7.5.0.75. To my surprise Legacy > >>software does not permit same sex marriages and will not permit the > >>changing of sex once married.  Legacy is sold to countries all around > >>the world and to person of all religions or of no religious believes. > >>Thus Legacy software should be less restrictive or at least have a > >>option to turn this feature off. > >> > >>I will continue to look for a work around. > >> > >>Denis > >> > >>On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 9:46 AM, Richard > Falzini <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> OK, here is my problem? > >>> In my family I have a couple that have > married in a civil ceremony, however > >>> they are both women. > >>> I want to add the one under the role of > female ( for example where you put > >>> your mother ) and the other where you would but your father. > >>> Now, when I put the one women in the male > position, would it be possible for > >>> me to also make her as female too? > >>> Right now she shows as a male? > >>> When you come up with same sex relations in a family tree, what > >>> settings > >>> should a person be aware of? > >>> Thank you > >>> Rich Legacy User Group guidelines: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Etiquette.asp Archived messages after Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ Archived messages from old mail server - before Nov. 21 2009: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ Online technical support: http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com/Help.asp Follow Legacy on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LegacyFamilyTree) and on our blog (http://news.LegacyFamilyTree.com). 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