Hi,
I don't know it this follows the advice on "quiet time before 4.8", but
being in rc1 I think is possible to talk about new ideas a little. I
hope this ideas doesn't get in the path of 4.8 releasing, but may be
could be put for 5.0 or any other release. In facto now that I see the
final reply It gets longer that I expected, so feel free to read it in
the moment you have the proper time (I agree that long mails has little
possibility to get read but also that not all can be expressed in
haiku/microblog style).
El 20/05/10 08:16, Edward K. Ream escribió:
[...]
I've gotten no responses from the code bubbles people or the Mathematica people.
[...]
Indeed, Vim and Emacs have wretched visual appearances by default.
Eclipse is much better in this regard, but it is based on Java. True,
Java has many pluses, and Jython mitigates Java, but the Eclipse
environment is "polluted" by Java-oriented design throughout. Compare
Java OSGI with Leo plugins.
Of course, you may disagree with various parts of my assessment, but
the situation *for me* is clear. I'm never going to be happy using
anything but Leo.
[...]
This concludes my once-a-year reassessment of the state of the
programming world. It's time to continue adding the best features of
Emacs, Vim, Eclipse and Mathematica to Leo.
I agree with you about that Vi, Emacs and Eclipse, but I'm still a Leo
newbie and I use things like Geany and I have explored things like Pida
for reading my config scripts and making minor changes on them, still
this is not programming and now I'm using more Leo for that tasks, but
I'm constantly feeling that I still doesn't use Leo "right". For me is
about having clones, deconstruct them by breaking them in the pieces I
need for my understanding and the possibility to import and export to
external files (without obfuscate marks of sentinels, so I use @shadow).
Still I enjoy this community and try to be around because it has a lot
of original thinking and a particular view on informatics (a broader
discipline that programming and also computer science) and I learn a lot
just with my peripheral participation (for example the Fossil SCM was a
really nice encounter from yesterday's reading).
But testing all this other environments (including TeXmacs instead of
Mathematica) gives me ideas about how the experience of using Leo could be:
* From Geany: Having a minimal included shell emulator inside the
environment for unix users could improve the . Opening files and making
other actions from the shell and having the output integrated on Leo
when makes sense. For example if I made leo -child somefile.any it will
open a new node with that file imported as a child of the present one.
This is just a possibility but what I want is a better integration with
the shell knowledge of the user, like Geany does.
* From Pida: Talking with the external world in terms of plugins
providing functionality: When pida first starts it leave you choose your
preferred editor: emacs, vi, or mooedit. The way that new plugins are
handled is easy, you get a list of them in a new frame (not a new
window), if you make click on one you get a detailed description and the
option to install them. This could be translated in modifying the proper
.leo files, but providing an easy to use interface for that will empower
newbies a make them easy to understand the flexibility of Leo, while
having things of your preferred environment/editor with you (not an
emulation). Thinking in how Leo will talk with the external apps can be
difficult (may be Pida sources could help), but I imagine a world where
Leo offers outline services to a lot of apps to need the Leo way (yes a
change in the api of external apps could break the things and is
important to have Leo self-contained, but having this communication with
common apps with stable apis like vim, emacs or TeXmacs could be a
convenient exploration).
* From Mathematica/TeXmacs: Rich interactive documentation. Having the
possibility to think interactively in a media richer environment with
images, sounds, animation, interactive computations. Apps like
reinteract are trying to have something like this made in Python and I
think that the rst-preview plugin is a proto-experiment in this context,
but we will need real time updating. I like also about TeXmacs that the
first time you open it, it brings you an introductory document for
newbies made on TeXmacs, would be nice something similar in Leo instead
of the empty outline, so newbies could feel more welcomed by the
environment (this list is very newbie friendly I think). Another good
ideas of Mathematica/TeXmacs are under the hood, for example in the
structure of documents (all is an expression, but I think that Leo is
closer in that sense with this ideas with its DAG structure).
Cheers,
Offray
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