That's Rich *Hickey*, not *Hackey* :-) On Fri, Dec 23, 2011 at 7:16 PM, Seth Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > On Fri, Dec 23, 2011 at 5:27 PM, Eoin <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> I've been following this discussion with some interest. A couple of >> things spring to mind now: >> 1. This seems to be the first statement of a problem: >> "outline structure must be first-class data in shared >> (cooperative, distributed) environments." Maybe it's been said earlier >> and I've missed it though. > > > I created a procedural language that was essentially XBASE-plus, and > part of it was the ability to assign context and state (indeed, any > component of these notions) to variables. This was how you could > navigate. You could log onto a Uniform Context Transfer Protocol > server and type commands like: > > GET CONTEXT > > (and it would return the current use type, link type, use, etc.) > > or: > > x = STATE > y = CONTEXT > > GET x > GET y > > Or to navigate in a context, you could: > > SET CONTEXT TO y > GO TOP LINK > do while not eoc() (endofcontext) > PRINT LINK > SKIP LINK > enddo > > or you can create the context at runtime: > SET USE TYPE TO someusetypeilike > SET LINK TYPE TO somelinktypeilike > GO TOP USE > z = CONTEXT > > None of Rich Hackey's persistent objects, separation of value from > identity, and transaction or state transition management. But it is a > model of distributed state, so by formalizing that, it is at least one > way to start thinking about the things he does with Clojure within a > set definition of distributed state. > > > Seth > >> 2. Rich Hickey's talks/videos on state, value and identity (with a nod >> to AN Whitehead) chime. Not sure if the specifics apply but the >> approach is interesting. >> I'd like to have a slightly more informed input to this. Edward, what >> can you recommend by way of reading/coding for the current Leo data >> structures? >> >> Best regards, >> Eoin >> >> On Dec 20, 2:36 pm, "Edward K. Ream" <[email protected]> wrote: >>> On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 11:59 AM, Edward K. Ream <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> > If all (or almost all) data appears in a Leonine sqlite db we can say >>> > the following: >>> >>> > - There is no need for a Leo cache. >>> > - There is no need for private @shadow files. >>> > - We can use the @shadow algorithm for *all* files, including @file, >>> > @auto, etc. >>> >>> Wrong, wrong, wrong. >>> >>> @shadow will *never* be the model for most files because it demotes >>> structure info to second-class status, namely, personal preference >>> grafted on to the "real" data. But the *essence* of Leo is that >>> structure is first-class data. >>> >>> @shadow is fine for non-cooperative (private) environments. In that >>> case, the "preference" structure is, in fact, the only structure there >>> is. But in shared environments outline structure must be part of each >>> external file. Thus, sentinels are, in general, essential as well. >>> >>> This must be the fourth or fifth time I have rediscovered this basic >>> principle. In the past, the emphasis has been mostly on sentinels, >>> but here we see that the underlying principle is that outline >>> structure must be first-class data in shared (cooperative, >>> distributed) environments. So this is progress of a sort. >>> >>> As a direct consequence, any approach that abandons sentinels must be >>> rejected. I don't know, in detail, this affects the current >>> discussion, but I think Seth and Hans have ideas that are compatible >>> with this principle. >>> >>> Edward >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "leo-editor" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor?hl=en. >>
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