Hey Terry, thanks for your remarks. Im trying to explain the best way I can the reasons that made me disoriented and hard to learn Leo. Those "discomforts" are hard to identify and then hard to put into words so excuse me for not being very clear from the start.
I believe the combo that made those outline changes disorienting is not only that the outline would move violently, but that it would do more than one thing for each command So in the case you suggest, I would be expecting only one thing to happen: for my selected node to move left. So I would still be less disoriented than if two things happen. In the case you state, the outline view is going to move violently anyway (either collapse big tree or put your view under it). But as a noob you are expecting only one thing to happen. So when two of them happen, you feel lost. Again, I undertand the most convenient thing to happen is for the parent to collapse, but Im not talking about convienience but about easening the learning process. Same with the clones thing, you collapse or open one, and then all your outline moves, and you cant even imagine why. Then when searching through nodes results, same thing. You are beginning to use outlines for your work (since there is not, in my opinion, any other outlining software as useful or worth it to work with than Leo). So its the first time in your life that you are working with outlines as a data management, and the current view of the outline is very important to you. When the outline moves and you didn't want that, you are lost until you get the view of your outline again. This feeling has been decreasing as I got used to work with outlines, but when I came, that made me feel lost a lot of times. And the multiple-things-happening problem was very shocking. Most of those are gone for me since Im getting used to work daily with outlines, but those made it difficult for me in the starting phase. Whenever the outline moves, and specially if it does so in ways you didn't order by a "simple-one-function-command", your understanding of the outline melts away until you can get it again. Maybe this is very personal and only happened to me, but I wanted to make sure I share those experiences since it happens only once - when you learn to permanently work with outlines, reshape them and still retain the understanding of it, etc. On Wednesday, October 16, 2013 3:39:18 PM UTC+2, Terry wrote: > > On Wed, 16 Oct 2013 06:26:02 -0700 (PDT) > Fidel N <[email protected] <javascript:>> wrote: > > > Similar case: > > When you have a selected sub-node and do control+L, the parent outline > will > > close and your selected node will become its next position. > > Those are two moves, and in the beginning its easier to follow if each > > action implies one only move. > > Conclusion: IMO, by default, when you move one node left it shouldn't > > collapse its previous parent outline. Less movement, easier to > understand, > > less disorientation. > > No strong opinions on these issues here, but I'd point out that not > collapsing the parent node can sometimes lead to a very large and > potentially disorienting movement. If your target node is near the top > of a long list of siblings, moving left without collapsing the parent > will move you way "down" the outline to get below that list, perhaps > scrolling all previous context out of view. > > Cheers -Terry > > > On Wednesday, October 16, 2013 10:12:09 AM UTC+2, Fidel N wrote: > > > > > > Hi: > > > > > > In the context of the recent noobie oriented improvements, I think it > > > would be great if everyone suggested the default config changes he > would > > > made and why. > > > > > > I still use Leo default configuration for two reasons. First is that I > > > think Leo should come with the most comfortable default configuration > for a > > > new user, so I wanted to get used to it then be able to pinpoint its > flags > > > if any. Second, Im still afraid to go in and change things hehe. So Im > > > guessing it takes a while for new users to go in there and change > things, > > > and the more comfortable we make Leo for them, the better. > > > > > > So the first suggestion I would like to do is for the expanding-clone > > > behaviour. > > > When you select a clone, and expand its tree, all the clones in the > full > > > outline will do the same thing. > > > This means all the tree will move and get you very disoriented if you > dont > > > know what is happening. As a new user not used to clones what you > expect is > > > for the subtree of your presently selected branch to open. I still get > > > disoriented when this happens. > > > > > > > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "leo-editor" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
