Hi Edward,
I don't know abut pylivecoding until now, but I can tell you that its
author was a pretty active member of the Pharo community and made some
introductory tutorials to it and projects bridging Pharo, Blender and
Python[1], so I can see the traces of a Smalltalk inspired live coding
environment.
[1] https://github.com/kilon
Neither I know about the internals of Python enough to advice a possible
route, but I have experience that a good introduction to live coding for
the general population is through its uses in music performances. And I
like a lot FoxDot, made in Python [1a][1b][1c]. If I would to approach
to live coding from a Python perspective, the programs that have been
done to music performance would be my first place, and also they would
give a playful moment to make some noise.
[1a] https://foxdot.org/
[1b] https://youtu.be/XRNFBZlBeuI
[1c] https://dev.viewtube.io/watch?v=xXNB1BbKY8A
The big difference in experience when live coding is having this
engaging and rewarding conversation with dynamic representation of
data/code instead of with some memory address or "printed" variable. I
think that is something that must have experience first hand, as is
difficult to convey such experience in words. I remember you tested
Grafoscopio before and Pharo and made some feedback about both
(Grafoscopio is still pretty raw, as it was my first "serious program"
ever and was a bootstrapper of other parallel researches) and Pharo has
not yet a prime documentation experience. But that is changing with the
Glamorous Toolkit (GT)[2] and there are a series on it[2a], where Tudor
Girba introduce the ideas and toolkit to several individuals (so many of
such videos can serve as an starting point). I would particularly advice
video #11 as a conversation with a Emacs user/dev and stablish the
differences between Emacs and GT and can be also an entry point for
those who have worked with self referential outliners (like Leo). Also I
have recently published a data story[2c] using Lepiter[2d] notebooks
that could help in some way as we have talked before about Leo becoming
some kind of data narrative environment for Python (maybe providing
outlining functionality beyond what is possible with Jupyter).
[2] https://gtoolkit.com/
[2a] https://invidious.snopyta.org/channel/UClLZHVq_-2D2-iI4rA2O8Ug
[2b] https://invidious.snopyta.org/watch?v=ndUpEq3Jcxs
[2c]
https://mutabit.com/repos.fossil/malleable-systems/doc/trunk/wiki/en/malleable-systems-wiki--23fm1.md.html
[2d]
https://lepiter.io/feenk/introducing-lepiter--knowledge-management--e2p6apqsz5npq7m4xte0kkywn/
So, just a lot of places to browse, without specific Python
implementation advice. But hopefully live coding for music and data
storytelling can serve as use cases and/or starting points about the
kind of experience that a Leo Powered lived coding environment could
provide.
Hope this helps,
Offray
On 24/02/22 7:52, Edward K. Ream wrote:
On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 12:42:02 PM UTC-6 Edward K. Ream
wrote:
>> what would it take to add live coding and better self-referential
features to python?
> pylivecoding <https://github.com/kilon/pylivecoding> is one answer.
I am going to take a look.
pylivecoding uses reload, which imo has no chance of working in
general. Instead, live code almost surely must be done at the
byte-code/interpreter/gc level.
Years ago, I remember reading about a fundamental smalltalk
interpreter opcode that makes live coding possible, but a brief google
search hasn't turned up anything. Offray, can you point me in the
right direction?
Edward
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