On Thursday, July 18, 2024 at 8:24:52 AM UTC-4 [email protected] wrote:

To be brief and frank -- @buttons are an objectively bad solution to this 
for a casual user.  An @button to set their favorite layout is:

1) inflexible -- a button will set a *specific* layout, and nothing else
2) bespoke -- require *development time* of the user, or to go begging on 
the mailing list for someone else to do the work, which is objectively a 
bad UX
3) clutter -- would add both cognitive *and* visual clutter to an outline


@buttons are certainly not a general solution. They can be useful but are 
limited.  The same is true for new menu items.
 

I feel that 'layout plugins' would assist with this, but they'd still be 
supremely inflexible.  For the non-programming user, we went from 'you can 
have any layout you want' to 'here are your choices, get over it'. 

To point #1, with the old easter-egg approach, I frequently manipulated 
layouts dynamically within the same workbook, to achieve what I needed *at 
the time, on the fly*. Some layouts I only ended up using for a few 
minutes, *as suited my workflow*. There was also the layout saving+loading 
mechanism that helped switch when desired to a series of 'stable' layouts, 
across all outlines.


I found it very hard to understand what results I was going to get with 
that old interface.  Yes, I would save and restore named  layouts once I 
got something I liked, and sometimes they got lost. I only ever had a few 
named layouts because managing and even remembering what they were for they 
were wasn't easy.  So for me they were a mixed blessing.
 

To #2, requiring a user to a) know the API, and b) be willing to put in the 
effort to write a custom bespoke script just to *move a panel around*.  
This is a bit much.


I agree with this.  It's not the same as the question of whether to only 
offer pre-canned layouts or to find ways to let a user roll their own.
 

#3 is nothing new in Leo world, but is just one more point of friction for 
new users.

If the splitters had context menus to add new splits, and panes had 
click&drag handles to let you move them around, my whole issue would be 
resolved.  No new commands, no new plugins, no absurd development time 
requests of basic users. 


I don't know why, but drag-n-drop often seems to be a problem with Leo.  
Dragging a node in the tree to a new spot works but it's touchy and 
sometimes doesn't get the node where you want.  Sometimes multiple nodes 
get highlighted and I don't know why, but only one of them will get moved 
by the mouse. It's possible to highlight more than one node but a delete 
will only deleted one of them, and it's not always the one I expect.  
Dropping files (other than outlines) doesn't work reliably yet.  And so 
on.  I think that dragging operations in general (in Qt but in other 
frameworks too) can be hard to get working right. I personally don't have 
much experience in this area so don't have anything useful to offer.
 

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