I think this regulation is absolutely useless.

Imagine that you are a dictator in some dictatorship country.

And now imagine how difficult with a lot of money and your people in many 
non-dictatorship countries is to buy FinFisher.... :-)
(Especially if you can easily buy weapons of mass destruction).

Pavol

On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 09:39:44PM +0000, Danny O'Brien wrote:
> Just to add to this:
> 
> It's surprising just how much of the old cryptowar  language is still hanging 
> around ready to trip someone up. The US government is still unwilling to 
> grant blanket exemptions for classes of crypto-using products, so the only 
> way you can know whether you're violating the broad language of the law is to 
> ask very specifically for an export license.  And if you ask, they may say 
> no. This was the issue with much of the United States "Axis of Evil" 
> (Sudan/Syria/Iran/N. Korea) sanctions too  -- Mozilla had to tread very 
> carefully in order to get a permitted exception before the recent sanctions 
> rewrite. That rewrite contains no pre-emptive exemptions (you still have to 
> apply)  and other companies still play far too safe WRT offering downloads to 
> these countries rather than risk asking permission and being turned down.
> 
> As Eric says, the UK is part of Wassenaar, which means public domain and 
> personal use crypto is okay to export, but various "strongish" crypto 
> requires a license, at least in theory: 
> http://rechten.uvt.nl/koops/cryptolaw/cls2.htm#Wassenaar
> 
> 
> To broaden Wassenaar to include surveillance tech by extending it with regard 
> to specific categories of use is one approach to attempt to dissuade local 
> companies from selling mass surveillance tools to repressive regimes. I know 
> that PI has been thinking and working on this for a very long time, and is 
> not unaware of the problems of creating well-meaning restrictions that can be 
> applied overbroadly. Another legislative approach is to prohibit the 
> distribution of certain tools with certain capabilities to certain target 
> groups (prohibit sales to law enforcement (or all but certain types of law 
> enforcement), government actors, blacklist countries).
> 
> I think the real challenge with either strategy is not re-animating the 
> crypto wars, but preventing a well-meaning effort to control the spread of 
> tools of mass surveillance becoming an excuse to, in some countries, 
> investigate or criminalize infosec tool creators and distributors, and in 
> others to create parallel, extrapolated laws that go after  local dissidents 
> who undermine the local public health and morals of the Net through their use 
> or possession of dangerous Internet  tools -- ie using the language 
> controlling surveillance tools  to also  cover circumvention or secure 
> communication tools. You could already go after distributors of such 
> well-regarded tools for domestic crypto violations in a disturbingly large 
> set of countries, though I've not seen anyone do that (partly I think because 
> the commercial sector's use of crypto is similarly unenforced in most 
> countries, but mostly because the prosecutors who go after dissident 
> reporters and technologists aren't particularly au fait with their own crypto 
> law).
> 
> We all need to tread very carefully here. Legislators can be taught to see 
> the problem as being rogue states conducting mass surveillance, but closer to 
> home they will tend to see it as individual criminals using spyware. It makes 
> sense if you are thinking about limiting the behaviour of foreign governments 
> to concentrate limiting the local incentives to manufacture and export those 
> tools; you can't, after all, effectively outlaw the practice of those foreign 
> governments. But viewing this simplistically as controlling the tool over  
> controlling the action is a problematic practice if we accept  code is 
> speech. The connection with the crypto-wars is the belief that we should aim 
> to criminalize bad behavior, not struggle futilely to outlaw the ownership 
> and distribution of particular programs that can be used in pursuit of that 
> behavior.
> 
> d.
> 
> ________________________________________
> From: [email protected] 
> [[email protected]] on behalf of Eric King 
> [[email protected]]
> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 16:21
> To: Jacob Appelbaum
> Cc: liberationtech
> Subject: Re: [liberationtech] FinFisher is now controlled by UK export  
> controls
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Apologies, I should have taken longer to explain what we this all means.
> 
> To get the obvious bit out of the way:  PI spent the first decade of it's 
> existence fighting the crypto wars and is against government control of 
> cryptography. While the governments decision is not the outcome we wanted, as 
> a temporary measure, we welcome what the British government is trying to do.
> 
> So to clarify some points:
> 
> No new cryptography controls have been put in place. The British government, 
> in seemly trying to do the right thing for once, has used the only power it 
> had to control FinFisher immediately. It's reinterpreted the remnants of the 
> old cryptography controls that were never fully removed and has applied them 
> to FinFisher.
> 
> We don't feel the success of the crypto wars has been undone in this action. 
> This is by no means a permanent solution and have said so clearly to the 
> British government. As a method of controlling FinFisher it's stupid and has 
> the potential to be easily circumvented. We're calling for export controls on 
> surveillance technology because of what it is, not because it happens to use 
> cryptography.
> 
> However this a hell of a lot of grit that has just been thrown into Gamma's 
> machinery. They will have to re-configure chunks of FinFisher if they want to 
> try evade the controls, and even then the control will very likely remain 
> effective. From this point on it, what this decision means is a little 
> unclear but the likely scenario is that right now Gamma is being investigated 
> for records of every location they have shipped FinFisher to. Updates and 
> technical support should have stopped until licences are granted and while 
> the British government won't stop exports to all the same countries PI might 
> want it to - it will be a significant chunk. These licences will then be 
> published and we'll have some indication as where else FinFisher will be 
> operating.
> 
> However there are a hell of a lot of unanswered questions and we've written 
> to the government asking for urgent clarification on the below points:
> 
>         • When and in what circumstances was the assessment of the FinSpy 
> system carried out, the conclusion reached and the advice given that a 
> licence to export was required?
>         • Had Gamma International previously sought advice from your client 
> as to whether the FinSpy system required export control, when was this and 
> what was the advice given?
>         • What audit had been carried out of the export of the FinSpy system 
> to countries outside the EU prior to the advice referred to?
>         • What enforcement action is/will be taken against Gamma 
> International for previous exports of the FinSpy system without a licence?
>         • Has Gamma International been required to retrospectively apply for 
> licences for previous exports of the FinSpy system? If not, why not?
>         • Has Gamma International sought any licences to export the FinSpy 
> system and/or provide technical assistance, and, if so, to which countries 
> and which licences have been granted and which refused?
>         • Notwithstanding the generality of question 6 above, material in the 
> public domain suggests that the FinSpy system has been used in Egypt, 
> Turkmenistan, Bahrain, Dubai, Ethiopia, Indonesia, Mongolia and Qatar. Has 
> Gamma sought any licences for exports of FinSpy or the provision of technical 
> assistance to any of these countries? If so, which ones and were licences 
> granted or refused?
>         • Kindly provide a detailed explanation and supporting documentation 
> of precisely which components of FinSpy are controlled?
> 
> The end goal is a subsection of the Wassenaar technical annex list to be 
> entitled "Surveillance", and control FinFisher directly within it, not 
> because it just happens to use cryptography. In the mean time, this doesn't 
> appear to do any damage elsewhere, but does causes a whole lot of problems 
> for Gamma.
> 
> There's more to be said, but as this is part of an ongoing legal action, 
> there are some things that have to remain confidential for the moment. For 
> those who have met me, you'll know I'm terrified of my work in this area 
> doing more harm than good, so I encourage people to call me out on anything 
> you think I've missed or doesn't make sense.  In the mean time I hope the 
> above will help dispel some of the concerns, but please ask if things are 
> unclear, either on or off list.
> 
> Best,
> Eric
> 
> 
> --
> Eric King
> Head of Research, Privacy International
> +44 (0) 7986860013   |   skype:blinking81   |   @e3i5
> 
> On 10 Sep 2012, at 19:39, Jacob Appelbaum <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Eric King:
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> I thought this list would be interested to know that the British 
> >> Government has decided to place FinFisher under UK export controls. There 
> >> are a ton of questions that remain to be answered, and it's only part of 
> >> the bigger goal to control the export of surveillance technology, but it's 
> >> a good first step!
> >>
> >>> In a letter sent earlier in August to Privacy International's lawyers 
> >>> Bhatt Murphy, a representative of the Treasury Solicitor stated:
> >>>
> >>> The Secretary of State, having carried out an assessment of the FinSpy 
> >>> system to which your letter specifically refers, has advised Gamma 
> >>> International that the system does require a licence to export to all 
> >>> destinations outside the EU under Category 5, Part 2 (‘Information 
> >>> Security’) of Annex I to the Dual-Use Regulation. This is because it is 
> >>> designed to use controlled cryptography and therefore falls within the 
> >>> scope of Annex I to the Dual-Use Regulation. The Secretary of State also 
> >>> understands that other products in the Finfisher portfolio could be 
> >>> controlled for export in the same way."
> >>>
> >>> Press release is here:
> >>> https://www.privacyinternational.org/press-releases/british-government-admits-it-has-already-started-controlling-exports-of-gamma
> >>>
> >>> Full copy of the letter: 
> >>> https://www.privacyinternational.org/sites/privacyinternational.org/files/downloads/press-releases/2012_08_08_response_from_tsol.pdf
> >> Best,
> >>
> >> Eric
> >
> > This is absolutely fucking horrible. They're controlling it based on
> > *cryptography* after we WON the cryptowars? What. The. Fuck. And even
> > worse, they must require a license? And they don't state categorically
> > that they'll deny it on some kind of humanitarian or anti-crime related
> > basis?
> >
> > I mean, I am sure this is the result of a lot of hard work by many
> > people and I don't mean to imply any disrespect. Did this just undercut
> > the work from the 90s? Wany people explicitly fought hard to win the
> > decision of having our free speech rights apply to the net for code as
> > speech.
> >
> > Argh,
> > Jake
> 
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