Hi Nadim, You are right, this is a very interesting and extremely controversial issue. Can you give people this basic necessities they need in life like food and clean water and then start building from there? It is sort of a Malowian hierarchy of needs perspective - and this would probably put the Internet higher in the hierarchy, making sure you have taken care of the other needs first so they could realize the possibilities of the Internet. But really, how often has this type of top down intervention worked? And when it hasn't worked, why hasn't it worked? Is it because the people being affected really didn't have a clear picture of what was going on.
I am wondering if one of the issues the Internet is raising with us is that these fulfillment of basic needs and a real understanding of what is happening in our lives are much more integrated and intertwined than we usually treat them in interventions, and you really can't get long term success in one without the other. There is a line of social action that has taken this approach long prior to the Internet referred to as Participatory (Action) Research (sometimes with the modifier libratory to differentiation from other similarly named initiatives). I think they make an extraordinarily good argument about how one without the other can be damaging. You of of course make a very good point about how you cannot parachute in Internet based intelligence, what some (including me) have called Open Source Intelligence. But one of the most interesting studies, or observations, I have read in the last few years in Sugata Mitra's Hole in the Wall experiment. He just put Internet access in a poor neighborhood in Delhi and watched what happened. It was amazing what these children were able to do intuitively. I think this is an idea that would be well worth pursuing and perhaps this is where Google is going. Michael ________________________________________ From: [email protected] [[email protected]] on behalf of Nadim Kobeissi [[email protected]] Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2013 7:48 AM To: liberationtech Subject: Re: [liberationtech] Bill Gates on Project Loon vs malaria I actually agree with Bill Gates here. If I had his money, I would make sure people have clean water, toilets, condoms, before even starting to consider working on Internet access. Sure, his comments are "below the belt" as Andrés says below, but this is only because he is unfairly attacking a noble, unrelated project. But the question he raises is: if you have unlimited money and want to tackle what you perceive as a human rights necessity, what do you go for? >From my perspective of the world, the Internet should be on the bottom of this >list. Sure, it should *be* on the list, but people who think that it's a >priority really need to examine the kind of awful problems that the world has >right now. No water, no food, no shelter, no hygiene, no toilets, no >education, no condoms, no medication… all of those things need to be solved >before we start worrying about the lack of Internet. Michael Glassman notes (also earlier in this thread): "Famine is not caused by lack of food but by lack of knowledge about access and location to food - something I believe is much more easily overcome through Internet access perhaps." It doesn't just work like that, I don't think. You don't just open Internet access and fund Internet centres and expect knowledge problems to work themselves out. Basic necessities need to be fulfilled first, and in that scenario, that deeply includes education. And in order to focus on education, you're going to need less malaria and more shelter, toilets and hygiene… I hope I'm making my point clearly here. This is a super interesting issue! I guess I'm going to stick to the conservative side here, though. The Internet is the current human rights issue for developed regions of the Middle East and North Africa (and deservedly so!!), but in some other parts of the world, we're just not there yet. There are more basic problems to solve, and this is only a testament to how harsh the world can be. NK On 2013-08-09, at 7:25 PM, Kyle Maxwell <[email protected]> wrote: > http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/aug/09/bill-gates-google-project-loon > > === > > Bill Gates criticises Google's Project Loon initiative > > Former Microsoft chief says low-income countries need more than just > internet access > > === > > Google's Project Loon initiative wants to provide internet access for > the developing world from a network of balloons floating in the > stratosphere. Former Microsoft boss Bill Gates isn't keen on the idea. > > "When you're dying of malaria , I suppose you'll look up and see that > balloon, and I'm not sure how it'll help you. When a kid gets > diarrhoea, no, there's no website that relieves that," Gates told > Business Week, in an interview about the work of the Bill & Melinda > Gates Foundation. > > "Certainly I'm a huge believer in the digital revolution. And > connecting up primary-healthcare centres, connecting up schools, those > are good things. But no, those are not, for the really low-income > countries, unless you directly say we're going to do something about > malaria." > > Gates also questioned Google's commitment to projects in developing > countries through its Google.org arm and related initiatives. > > "Google started out saying they were going to do a broad set of > things. They hired Larry Brilliant, and they got fantastic publicity," > said Gates. "And then they shut it all down. Now they're just doing > their core thing. Fine. But the actors who just do their core thing > are not going to uplift the poor." > > Project Loon was announced in June as Google launched a pilot scheme > with 30 balloons above New Zealand, providing internet access through > receivers on the ground. > > "We believe that it might actually be possible to build a ring of > balloons, flying around the globe on the stratospheric winds, that > provides Internet access to the earth below," explained project lead > Mike Cassidy at the time, suggesting speeds could eventually match > today's 3G networks. > > "As a result, we hope balloons could become an option for connecting > rural, remote, and under-served areas, and for helping with > communications after natural disasters. The idea may sound a bit crazy > – and that's part of the reason we're calling it Project Loon – but > there's solid science behind it." > > Google has worked with organisations trying to tackle healthcare in > developing countries through its Google for Nonprofits initiative, > with case studies on its website for Direct Relief International , > Unicef and Charity: Water outlining some of its efforts. > > Meanwhile, Google.org's webpage for its Crisis Response activities > makes prominent use of a photo of someone using their mobile phone in > the aftermath of a disaster in Haiti, supplied by the Bill & Melinda > Gates Foundation. > > Gates' views on malaria are heartfelt, though. It's described as a > "top priority" for the Foundation , which has so far committed nearly > $2bn (£1.3bn) in grants towards research into treatments, diagnosis > and mosquito-control technologies, as well as $1.4bn to the Global > Fund to Fight AIDS, Tuberculosis and Malaria. > > This sits alongside the foundation's work towards eradicating Polio. > "If we get credibility from the polio success, we can be more > articulate about a malaria or measles elimination plan," Gates told > Business Week. "The big one would be malaria, but that's a long-term, > in-my-lifetime-type thing, not imminent." > > > -- > @kylemaxwell > -- > Liberationtech list is public and archives are searchable on Google. Too many > emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing > moderator at [email protected] or changing your settings at > https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech -- Liberationtech is a public list whose archives are searchable on Google. 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