My daughter is playing... on my property... just a foot or two away from my neighbors property. Suddenly my... neighbor... on his property only twenty feet away from my daughter... starts running at her yelling that he is going to kill her. He is carrying a large knife.... My daughter freezes in fear and there is no way I can reach her before he does. May I INITIATE FORCE [caps inserted by me - Dach] and shoot him while he is in his own yard? **********************************************************************
Ah-ha! You are confused about what 'initiation of force' means. Let me clear it up for you. Initiation of force is libertarian jargon synonymous with aggression (which is the term I prefer), which means taking immoral, forceful action OTHER THAN in defense of life and morally aquired property. In this case it is your neighbor who has initiated force by charging in deadly earnest at your daughter with a knife, while shouting out his intent to kill her. Under the circumstances, of course you can shoot him in his own yard! If there is time to shout out for him to stop before he gets within twenty feet or so of her do so, if not just drop him in his tracks before he gets close enough to use the knife, regardless of what side of the property line he is on. You did not immorally initiate force, he did; you acted morally, in defense of life. Dach --- In [email protected], Tim Gamble <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 7/31/05, Theodore Dachenhausen III <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > As far as I am concerned, the moment he starts threatening you or your > > family with a weapon, you get inside your house and call the cops. As > > long as he doesn't pursue you, let the cops handle it, its what > > they're payed to do. If, however, he does pursue you, or starts > > shooting, drop him in his tracks. > > > > > Hi Dach, > > Thanks for the reply to my hypothetical situation. Actually this area > (force) is the one area I am going to have to work on understanding before > fully embracing the Libertarian way. > > Your answer indicates no self-defense until the other person actually > initiates force, in this instance by either invading my property or actually > shooting at me or my family, no matter how direct and credible the threat > from the other person. > > The problem with that is if I wait until he actually initiates force by > firing his gun, my daughter losses her life. It only takes one bullet and > one second. If, in today's world it only takes lone second of force to take > a life, can we really afford to wait until force is actually initiated > against us to take action? Especially in a situation where the threat is > immediate, direct and credible. > > Take this situation. I am on my back porch cleaning my pistol. My daughter > is playing on my property forty feet away from me and just a foot or two > away from my neighbors property. Suddenly my crazy, drug-addicted neighbor > jumps out of some bushes on his property only twenty feet away from my > daughter and starts running at her yelling that he is going to kill her. He > is carrying a large knife, but he is still on his property. My daughter > freezes in fear and there is no way I can reach her before he does. May I > initiate force and shoot him while he is in his own yard? > > This seems like an odd question to ask, but after hearing Harry Browne and > some other Libertarians explain the whole "never initiate force" thing, I > came away believing that even in this instance it would be considered wrong > by them to initiate force. > > Forgive the pun, but this forces people to always be solely in a reactive > mode when dealing with threats. A position of weakness which can only > encourage, not discourage, would be attackers. > > Comments? Where am I going wrong on this one? > > Tim > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> <font face=arial size=-1><a href="http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12hl1l559/M=362329.6886306.7839369.3040540/D=groups/S=1705060682:TM/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1122958697/A=2894321/R=0/SIG=11dvsfulr/*http://youthnoise.com/page.php?page_id=1992 ">Fair play? Video games influencing politics. Click and talk back!</a>.</font> --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> ForumWebSiteAt http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
