What was Bush's reason for the war on Iraq, and please do not bore us with WMDs, a threat to the United States or any non-existent connection between SH and Osama bin Laden? Is there any plausible reason for this war? What is today's mission of our troops in Iraq, whom I support totally and want to bring home now, and why has it changed so often? Do you believe that the Constitution of the United States requires Congress to declare war and that our armed forces should be used only to protect the United States? What limits would you place to prevent perpetual war, increased debt and decreased liberty if the US reaches the goal of becoming total policeman of the whole world?
For life and liberty, David Macko ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 5:21 PM Subject: [Libertarian] Re: Photos: AIPAC Protest/March on Congress Nothing needs to be refuted. No case was proven. Only the comments of people who support the right of Israel to exist. The war was not started because Israel didn't like Iraq. It was not started to benefit Israel. It was not started because Saddam Hussein was paying Palestinians to blow up Israeli people. It was not started for anything even remotely connected to Israel. George W. Bush alone started the war in Iraq and Israel had nothing to do with that decision. All of the meaningless and baseless claims of Mark Weber hold no water. If you want to provide a quote that will get me to admit the war was to defend Israel, just get me a quote from George W. Bush saying, "This war wasn't because I thought Saddam Hussein was a danger to America, but rather because he was a danger to Israel." If you can't provide such a quote, you've got nothing but racially motivated speculation, propaganda, lies, and baseless claims. --- In [email protected], "David Macko" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > If you can logically, rationally dispute the article by Mark Weber, > "Iraq, A War For Israel", together with its fourteen footnotes, > I would be very interested in reading your refutation. However, > use of insulting terms such as you used below lead me to believe that > there is a lack of rational evidence against Mr. Weber's thesis. > Here is the article. Read it and judge for yourselves: > > Iraq: A War For Israel > By Mark Weber > > The United States Invasion of Iraq in March-April 2003, and the > occupation of the country since then, has cost more than fifteen hundred > American lives and many tens of billions of dollars, and has brought death > to many thousands of Iraqis. > > Why did President Bush decide to go to war? In whose interests was it > launched? > > In the months leading up to the attack, President Bush and other > high-ranking US officials repeatedly warned that the threat posed to the US > and world by the Baghdad regime was so grave and imminent that the United > States had to act quickly to bomb, invade and occupy Iraq. > > On September 28, 2002, for example, he said: "The danger to our > country is grave and it is growing. The Iraqi regime possesses biological > and chemical weapons, is rebuilding the facilities to make more and, > according to the British government, could launch a biological or chemical > attack in as little as 45 minutes after the order is given... This regime is > seeking a nuclear bomb, and with fissile material could build one within a > year." > > On March 6, 2003, President Bush declared: "Saddam Hussein and his > weapons are a direct threat to this country, to our people, and to all free > people... I believe Saddam Hussein is a threat to the American people. I > believe he's a threat to the neighborhood in which he lives. And I've got > good evidence to believe that. He has weapons of mass destruction... The > American people know that Saddam Hussein has weapons of mass destruction." > > These claims were untrue. As the world now knows, Iraq had no > dangerous "weapons of mass destruction," and posed no threat to the US. > Moreover, alarmist suggestions that the Baghdad regime was working with the > al-Qaeda terror network likewise proved to be without foundation. > > So if the official reasons given for the war were untrue, why did the > United States attack? > > Whatever the secondary reasons for the Iraq war, the crucial factor in > President Bush's decision to attack was to help Israel. With support from > Israel and America's Jewish-Zionist lobby, and prodded by Jewish > "neo-conservatives" holding high-level positions in his administration, > President Bush - who was already fervently committed to Israel - resolved to > invade and subdue one of Israel's chief regional enemies. > > This is so widely understood in Washington that US Senator Ernest > Hollings was moved in May 2004 to acknowledge that the US invaded Iraq "to > secure Israel," and "everybody" knows it. He also identified three of the > influential pro-Israel Jews in Washington who played an important role in > prodding the US into war: Richard Perle, chair of the Pentagon's Defense > Policy Board; Paul Wolfowitz, Deputy Defense Secretary; and Charles > Krauthammer, columnist and author. [1] > > Hollings referred to the cowardly reluctance of his Congressional > colleagues to acknowledge this truth openly, saying that "nobody is willing > to stand up and say what is going on." Due to "the pressures we get > politically," he added, members of Congress uncritically support Israel and > its policies. > > Some months before the invasion, retired four-star US Army General and > former NATO Supreme Allied Commander Wesley Clark said in an interview: > > "Those who favor this attack [by the US against Iraq] now will tell > you candidly, and privately, that it is probably true that Saddam Hussein is > no threat to the United States. But they are afraid at some point he might > decide if he had a nuclear weapon to use it against Israel." [2] > > Fervently Pro-Israel > > President Bush's fervent support for Israel and its hardline premier > is well known. He reaffirmed it, for example, in June 2002 in a major speech > on the Middle East. In the view of "leading Israeli commentators," the > London Times reported, the address was "so pro-Israel that it might have > been written by Ariel Sharon." [3] > > Condoleeza Rice, Bush's National Security Advisor, echoed the > President's outlook in a May 2003 interview, saying that the "security of > Israel is the key to security of the world." [4] > > In an address to pro-Israel activists at the 2004 convention of the > American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), Bush said: "The United > States is strongly committed, and I am strongly committed, to the security > of Israel as a vibrant Jewish state." He also told the gathering: "By > defending the freedom and prosperity and security of Israel, you're also > serving the cause of America." [5] > > Long Range Plans > > Jewish-Zionist plans for war against Iraq had been in place for years. > > In mid-1996, a policy paper prepared for then-Israeli Prime Minister > Benjamin Netanyahu outlined a grand strategy for Israel in the Middle East. > Entitled "A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm," it was > written under the auspices of an Israeli think tank, the Institute for > Advanced Strategic and Political Studies. Specifically, it called for an > "effort [that] can focus on removing Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq, an > important Israeli strategic objective in its own right..." [6] > > The authors of "A Clean Break" included Richard Perle, Douglas Feith, > and David Wurmser, three influential Jews who later held high-level > positions in the Bush administration, 2001-2004: Perle as chair of the > Defense Policy Board, Feith as Undersecretary of Defense, and Wurmser as > special assistant to the Undersecretary of State for Arms Control. > > The role played by Bush administration officials who are associated > with two major pro-Zionist "neoconservative" research centers has come under > scrutiny from The Nation, the influential public affairs weekly. [7] > > The author, Jason Vest, examined the close links between the Jewish > Institute for National Security Affairs (JINSA) and the Center for Security > Policy (CSP), detailing the ties between these groups and various > politicians, arms merchants, military men, wealthy pro-Israel American Jews, > and Republican presidential administrations. > > JINSA and CSP members, notes Vest, "have ascended to powerful > government posts, where... they've managed to weave a number of issues - > support for national missile defense, opposition to arms control treaties, > championing of wasteful weapons systems, arms aid to Turkey and American > unilateralism in general - into a hard line, with support for the Israeli > right at its core... On no issue is the JINSA/CSP hard line more evident > than in its relentless campaign for war - not just with Iraq, but 'total > war,' as Michael Ledeen, one of the most influential JINSAns in Washington, > put it... For this crew, 'regime change' by any means necessary in Iraq, > Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia and the Palestinian Authority is an urgent > imperative." > > Samuel Francis, author, editor and columnist, has also looked into the > "neo-conservative" role in fomenting war. [8] > > "My own answer," he wrote, "is that the lie [that a massively-armed > Iraq posed a grave and imminent threat to the US] was fabricated by > neo-conservatives in the administration whose first loyalty is to Israel and > its interests and who wanted the United States to smash Iraq because it was > the biggest potential threat to Israel in the region. They are known to have > been pushing for war with Iraq since at least 1996, but they could not make > an effective case for it until after Sept. 11, 2001... > > "What has been happening inside the Bush administration is no less a > nest of treason than the Soviet spy rings of the New Deal era, and if > political reality doesn't demand its exposure, simple loyalty to the United > States does." > > In the aftermath of the 2001 Nine-Eleven terror attacks, ardently > pro-Zionist "neo-conservatives" in the Bush administration - who for years > had sought a Middle East war to bolster Israel's security in the region - > exploited the tragedy to press their agenda. In this they were backed by the > Israeli government, which also pressured the White House to strike Iraq. > > The Jerusalem correspondent for the Guardian, the respected British > daily, reported in August 2002: "Israel signalled its decision yesterday to > put public pressure on President George Bush to go ahead with a military > attack on Iraq, even though it believes Saddam Hussein may well retaliate by > striking Israel." [9] > > Three months before the US invasion, the well-informed Washington > journalist Robert Novak reported that Israeli prime minister Sharon was > telling American political leaders that "the greatest US assistance to > Israel would be to overthrow Saddam Hussein's Iraqi regime." Moreover, added > Novak, "that view is widely shared inside the Bush administration, and is a > major reason why US forces today are assembling for war." [10] > > Israel's spy agencies were a "full partner" with the US and Britain in > producing greatly exaggerated prewar assessments of Iraq's ability to wage > war, a former senior Israeli military intelligence official has > acknowledged. Shlomo Bron, a brigadier general in the Israel army reserves, > and a senior researcher at a major Israeli think tank, said that > intelligence provided by Israel played a significant role in supporting the > US and British case for making war. Israeli intelligence agencies, he said, > "badly overestimated the Iraqi threat to Israel and reinforced the American > and British belief that the weapons [of mass destruction] existed." [11] > > For some Jewish leaders, the Iraq war is part of a long-range effort > to install Israel-friendly regimes across the Middle East. Norman Podhoretz, > a prominent Jewish writer and an ardent supporter of Israel, has been for > years editor of Commentary, the influential Zionist monthly. In the Sept. > 2002 issue he wrote: "The regimes that richly deserve to be overthrown and > replaced are not confined to the three singled-out members of the axis of > evil [Iraq, Iran, North Korea]. At a minimum, the axis should extend to > Syria and Lebanon and Libya, as well as 'friends' of America like the Saudi > royal family and Egypt's Hosni Mubarak, along with the Palestinian > Authority, whether headed by Arafat or one of his henchmen." > > Patrick J. Buchanan, the well-known writer and commentator, and former > White House Communications director, has been blunt in identifying those who > pushed for war: [12] > > "We charge that a cabal of polemicists and public officials seek to > ensnare our country in a series of wars that are not in America's interests. > We charge them with colluding with Israel to ignite those wars and destroy > the Oslo Accords. We charge them with deliberately damaging US relations > with every state in the Arab world that defies Israel or supports the > Palestinian people's right to a homeland of their own. We charge that they > have alienated friends and allies all over the Islamic and Western world > through their arrogance, hubris, and bellicosity... > > "Cui Bono? For whose benefit these endless wars in a region that holds > nothing vital to America save oil, which the Arabs must sell us to survive? > Who would benefit from a war of civilizations between the West and Islam? > > "Answer: one nation, one leader, one party. Israel, Sharon, Likud." > > Uri Avnery - an award-winning Israeli journalist and author, and a > three-time member of Israel's parliament - sees the Iraq war as an > expression of immense Jewish influence and power. In an essay written some > weeks after the US invasion, he wrote: [13] > > "Who are the winners? They are the so-called neo-cons, or > neo-conservatives. A compact group, almost all of whose members are Jewish. > They hold the key positions in the Bush administration, as well as in the > think-tanks that play an important role in formulating American policy and > the ed-op pages of the influential newspapers... The immense influence of > this largely Jewish group stems from its close alliance with the extreme > right-wing Christian fundamentalists, who nowadays control Bush's Republican > party. ...Seemingly, all this is good for Israel. America controls the > world, we control America. Never before have Jews exerted such an immense > influence on the center of world power." > > In Britain, a veteran member of Britain's House of Commons bluntly > declared in May 2003 that Jews had taken control of America's foreign > policy, and had succeeded in pushing the US into war. "A Jewish cabal have > taken over the government in the United States and formed an unholy alliance > with fundamentalist Christians," said Tam Dalyell, a Labour party deputy and > the longest-serving House member. "There is far too much Jewish influence in > the United States," he added. [14] > > Summary > > For many years now, American presidents of both parties have been > staunchly committed to Israel and its security. This entrenched policy is an > expression of the Jewish-Zionist grip on America's political and cultural > life. It was fervent support for Israel - shared by President Bush, > high-ranking administration officials and nearly the entire US Congress - > that proved crucial in the decision to invade and subdue one of Israel's > greatest regional enemies. > > While the unprovoked US invasion of Iraq may have helped Israel, just > as those who wanted and planned for the war had hoped, it has been a > calamity for America and the world. It has cost tens of thousands of lives > and many tens of billions of dollars. Around the world, it has generated > unmatched distrust and hostility toward the US. In Arab and Muslim > countries, it has fueled intense hatred of the United States, and has > brought many new recruits to the ranks of anti-American terrorists. > > Americans have already paid a high price for their nation's commitment > to Israel. We will pay an ever higher price - not just in dollars or > international prestige, but in the lives of young men squandered for the > interests of a foreign state - until the Jewish-Zionist hold on US political > life is finally broken. > > Notes > > 1.. Remarks by Ernest F. Hollings, May 20, 2004. Congressional > Record - Senate, May 20, 2004, pages S5921-S5925. > 2.. The Guardian (London), August 20, 2002. > 3.. R. Dunn, "Sharon Could Have Written Speech," The Times (London), > June 26, 2002. > 4.. A. S. Lewin, "Israel's Security is Key to Security of Rest of > World," Jewish Press (Brooklyn, NY), May 14, 2003. Rice's interview with the > Israeli daily Yediot Aharnonot is quoted. > 5.. Bush address to AIPAC convention, Washington, DC, May 18, 2004. > 6.. Text posted at: www.israeleconomy.org/strat1.htm See also: J. > Bamford, A Pretext for War (Doubleday, 2004), pages 261-269; B. Whitaker, > "Playing Skittles with Saddam," The Guardian (Britain), Sept. 3, 2002. > 7.. J. Vest, "The Men From JINSA and CSP," The Nation, Sept. 2, > 2002. > 8.. S. Francis, "Weapons of Mass Deception: Somebody Lied," column > of Feb. 6, 2004. > 9.. Jonathan Steele, "Israel Puts Pressure on US to Strike Iraq," > The Guardian (London), August 17, 2002. > 10.. Robert Novak, "Sharon's War?," column of Dec. 26, 2002. > 11.. L. King, "Ex-General Says Israel Inflated Iraqi Threat," Los > Angeles Times, Dec. 5, 2003. > 12.. P. J. Buchanan, "Whose War?," The American Conservative, March > 24, 2003. > 13.. Uri Avnery, "The Night After," CounterPunch, April 10, 2003. > 14.. F. Nelson, "Anger Over Dalyell's 'Jewish Cabal' Slur," The > Scotsman (Edinburgh), May 5, 2003; M. White, "Dalyell Steps Up Attack On > Levy," The Guardian (London), May 6, 2003. > #2018 05/05 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > About the author > Mark Weber is director of the Institute for Historical Review. He > studied history at the University of Illinois (Chicago), the University of > Munich, Portland State University and Indiana University (M.A., 1977). For > nine years he served as editor of the IHR's Journal of Historical Review. > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > This essay, and others in this series, are available in handy leaflet > format, ideal for wide distribution. They can be ordered, postpaid, at these > prices: > 10 copies, $2.00 :: 50 copies, $7.50 :: 100 copies or more, 10 cents > each. > > Institute for Historical Review > P.O. Box 2739 - Newport Beach, CA 92659 - USA > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > Home Support the IHR Contact Us Journal of Historical > Review Books & Tapes Search > > © 2005 Institute for Historical Review > > > For life and liberty, > David Macko > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Paul" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 2:12 PM > Subject: [Libertarian] Re: Photos: AIPAC Protest/March on Congress > > > > Wow, you found 18 whole Jew Hating anti-semites within the LP to join > > you in your ignorant blaming of Israel for the war in Iraq? I didn't > > know there were that many mentally retarded racist assholes in the > > party. Good job on finding them. I guess shitbirds of a feather > > flock together. > > > > --- In [email protected], Carol Moore in DC <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> 18 people from around the country showed. It was fun and > >> tweaked the pro-war Israel lobby. Photos at > >> http://stopthewarnow.net/protests/aipacprotest-09-05.html > >> > >> Some of us are talking about doing a more organized, coalition effort > >> against the Israel Lobby/Christian Zionists/Neocons, something which > >> most of the peace movement would welcome. Speak truth to power even if > >> they call you a bigot for telling the truth. > >> > >> Personally as a libertarian/anarchist/decentralist I feel the weight of > >> ALL the rich and powerful special interests cannot be countered by mere > >> citizen organizing to gain equal power. They can only be countered > >> through DISSOLUTION of the power. I.e., dissolution of the seat of the > >> power, the United States government. > >> > >> Per the Declaration of Independence it remains "the right of the people > >> to alter or abolish (government)." > >> > >> See http://secession.net for a radical decentralist vision of regional > >> networks and confederation of autonomous > > communities/counties/cities, etc. > >> > >> Of course, if Iran war leads to world nuke war this fall, that IS what > >> the few survivors will end up with. For more on that coming war > >> Http://stopthewarnow.net > >> > >> Carol in dc > >> > >> PS: See my lengthy (incomplete and somewhat garbled) quotes on Iran war > >> in recent NY Sun article > >> http://www.nysun.com/article/20550 ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Fair play? Video games influencing politics. Click and talk back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/VpgUKB/pzNLAA/cUmLAA/KlSolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> ForumWebSiteAt http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
