Larry, did you not read what I said about keeping the focus on LIBERTARIANISM in this forum?
Those who will not moderate their own posts will provoke imposed moderation! THIS is NOT the 'who is the true Jew' forum! It is NOT the 'who is the true Christian' forum, either. Nor is it the 'who is the true Islamic' forum. It IS a forum to discuss LIBERTARIANISM pro and con. A fundimental premise in this discussion is that each person's just responsibility (culpability?) can NOT be exported to: other people lack of love drugs race CREEDS (beliefs) and so on... LIBERTARIANISM is about the freedom of each INDIVIDUAL person to do as they each decide of their own free will EXCEPT for initiating, or doing a credible threat to initiate, physical force against the person or justly held possessions of another. Virtually all persons use this principle ALREADY in MOST interactions with others. So, we are not 'selling' a radical hopeless notion, imo. Since NONE of us can 'know it all' we benefit by learning from each other as to how this LIBERTARIAN principle can be made to apply in various areas of human (or otherwise?) action. FOCUS your discourse in this forum on LIBERTARIANISM, pro/con! Moderator, -Terry Liberty Parker Envision UNIVERSAL Libertarianism! at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian/message/42022 --- In [email protected], "h9tech_47460" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Again, ZIONISTS like Paul and Bruce here will use their anti- semetic > SMOKESCREEN LIES to avoid discussing FACT AND ISSUES! Since Terry > hasn't dressed them down for thier whining, here are a few excerpts > from the stinking TALMUD that I supplied a GOOGLE LINK to. Here it > is again yielding over 48 THOUSAND hits Yet Paul here whines that > what I say has no validity. I submit to you it is Paul who has no > valiidity but I also say CHECK IT YOURSELVES!! I HAVE A HARDCOPY > which matches the material online. The next thing > these 'propagandists' do is tell you it has to be interpreted by > some 'Rabbi.' NO IT DOESN'T READ THE DAMNABLE THING FOR YOURSELVES!! > > > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 8:25 AM > Subject: ZIONIST TALMUD ONLINE!!! KILL CHRISTIANS!!!!??? > > > THE ONE OBJECT OF ALL THE ACTIONS AND PRAYERS OF THE JEWS SHOULD BE > TO DESTROY THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION > > > FYI > - > Here is the first Babylonian Talmud ever put online. I am not sure if > this translation is accurate or if it hides some of the worst parts > of the Talmud which expresses the true feelings of rage and hate that > Jews have for Christians and Christianity. > > I am sending it to you so that you have access to it and when or if > you find the time, check it out. > > Sincerely yours, > > XXXXXXX > > ++++++++ > > NOTE FROM BOB - GO TO http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/talmud.htm > > AND READ THE FOLLOWING INTRODUCTION TO THE TALMUD ONLINE > > ++++++++ > > The Babylonian Talmud > Translated by Michael L. Rodkinson > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > ---------- > > Book 1: Tract Sabbath > Book 2: Tracts Erubin, Shekalim, Rosh Hashana > Book 3: Tracts Pesachim, Yomah and Hagiga > Book 4: Tracts Betzh, Succah, Moed Katan, Taanith, Megilla and Ebel > Rabbathi or Semahoth > Book 5: Tracts Aboth, Derech Eretz-Rabba, Derech Eretz-Zuta, and Baba > Kama (First Gate) > Book 6: Tract Baba Kama (First Gate), Part II and Tract Baba Metzia > (Middle Gate) > Book 7: Tract Baba Bathra (Last Gate) > Book 8: Tract Sanhedrin: Section Jurisprudence (Damages) > Book 9: Tracts Maccoth, Shebuoth, Eduyoth, Abuda Zara, and Horioth > Book 10: History of the Talmud > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > ---------- > > A search for Talmud at Google will turn up hundreds of thousands of > hits, a depressing number of which are to anti-Semitic sites. > However, to our knowledge this is the first extensive English > translation of the Talmud to be posted on the Internet. The Talmud is > a vast collection of Jewish laws and traditions. Despite the dry > subject matter the Talmud makes interesting reading because it is > infused with vigorous intellectual debate, humor and deep wisdom. As > the saying goes, 'you don't have to be Jewish' to appreciate this > text. If you put in the hard work required to read the Talmud, your > mind will get a world-class workout. The process of studying the > Talmud has been compared with the practice of Zen Buddhist Koan > meditation, and for good reason. > > Rodkinsons' ten-book edition, the only extensive one currently in the > public domain, contains complete translations of the 'Festivals' > and 'Jurisprudence' sections of the Talmud. Rodkinson only finished > about a third of the Talmud. All ten volumes were prepared at Sacred- > texts and are available here in their entirety. > > Rodkinson has been widely criticized, both from traditionalist Jews > who feel that translating the Talmud is not an acceptable practice, > as well as from those hostile to the Talmud and Judaism in general. > As often seems to be the case, the political spectrum seems to be a > Mobeius loop. All of these viewpoints are abundantly represented on > the Internet. Some quote material out of context, or ascribe hostile > intent to innocent passages. The most hurtful critics are those who > claim that Rodkinson deliberately left out material to conceal an > evil Jewish agenda. After completion of this etext, I can > unequivocably state that this is hogwash. Rodkinson's Talmud is, by > definition, an abridgement for modern readers. He left out only the > sections where the debate spins off into complete obscurity, and was > careful to document where he did so. Now that this incredible text, > lovingly translated, is on the Internet perhaps these criticisms can > finally be put to rest. > > Bibliographic note on Rodkinsons' Talmud > > Rodkinson's translation went through at least two editions. The > sacred-texts version was prepared from the second edition. All of > these were from the 1918 printing, with the exception of book 1, > which was scanned from a 1903 printing. The numbering of the volumes > changed radically between the first and second edition; to add to the > confusion the second edition was bound into a ten book set, two > volumes per book. This numbering is consistent, for instance, the > second edition book 1 contains volumes 1 and 2; book 5 contains > volumes 9 and 10, and so on. However, the volume sequence of the > first edition was completely shuffled in the second edition; for > instance, volumes 9 and 10 of the second edition (in book 5) > correspond to volumes 1 and 2 of the first edition. This confusion > will be evident if you shop the used book market for individual books > of this set (which are fairly abundant at reasonable prices). > > Book 1: Tract Sabbath This book contains Tract Sabbath, which > discusses what can and cannot be done on the Jewish Holy day. This > tract has a wealth of information on everyday Jewish life in late > Classical times, including, for some reason, a great number of > medical recipies. Because almost everything is done differently on > the Sabbath, this contains an incredible level of ethnographic detail > about a wide range of household activities including livestock, > clothing, meals, horticulture, hunting, and other more obscure > topics, such as fire-fighting and feminine hygene. > > Rodkinson makes the point in an appendix that many of the Talmundic > regulations which seem to be arbitrary were developed as a response > to political persecution. He also includes a prayer which is offered > upon the conclusion of studying any tract. > > Book 2: Tracts Erubin, Shekalim, Rosh Hashana > This book contains tracts from section Moed (Festivals). Tract Erubin > deals with regulations concerning travel on the Sabbath, and the > proper construction of 'Erub', propitiatory offerings for > transgressions of these rules, usually, but not always, constructed > of food. Tract Shekalim deals with tithes. Tract Rosh Hashana > discusses the Jewish New Year, a floating holiday tied to lunar > observations. > > Book 3: Tracts Pesachim, Yomah and Hagiga > This book also contains tracts from section Moed (Festivals), > primarily discussions of the rituals to be performed on important > holy days: principally Passover and the Day of Atonement. The short > third tract, Hagiga, discusses the Holocaust ceremony, (meaning a > burnt-offering), which today has come into use as a term for the Nazi > genocide. Among other points of interest is description of the ritual > of the scapegoat in Chapter VI. of Tract Yomah; and Chapter II. of > Tract Hagiga has a notable digression on a variety of subjects, > including the cryptic Chariot of God, and the names and > characteristics of the seven heavens. > > Book 4: Tracts Betzh, Succah, Moed Katan, Taanith, Megilla and Ebel > Rabbathi or Semahoth > This rounds out the Festivals portion of Rodkinson's Talmud > translation. Tract Betzah details regulations about cooking, fishing, > hunting and other activities on feast days. Tract Succah discusses > the Festival of the Tabernacles, particularly the construction and > use of the Succah, or booth. Moed Katan is about miscellaneous laws > about some minor festivals, for instance activites which are > permissible during intercalendary periods. Taanith has discussions > about the beginning of the rains, including a sequence of folktales > about rainmaking Rabbis. Megilla is about Purim, particularly about > the public reading of the book of Esther during that festival. Ebel > Rabbath is about mourning and other funerary activities. > > Book 5: Tracts Aboth, Derech Eretz-Rabba, Derech Eretz-Zuta, and Baba > Kama (First Gate) > This book starts out with three tracts on ethics, including the lucid > and moving Pirqe Aboth (Sayings of the Fathers), also translated by > Taylor (see below). This edition of Aboth comes with extensive > commentary. The Baba Kama is the first section of a three-part > opening arc of the Jurisprudence section. To the modern reader it is > of interest because of the unintentional and (sometimes pungent) > atmospheric details of everyday life in first century Israel. Many of > the Baba Kama cases start when 'an ox gores' someone or something; > the modern equivalent would probably be automobile moving violations. > The debates are notable because they are based equally on scripture > and appeals to an emerging standard of common-sense justice and human > rights. > > Book 6: Tract Baba Kama (First Gate), Part II and Tract Baba Metzia > (Middle Gate) > This book contains the conclusion of Baba Kama, the First Gate, and > Baba Metzia, the Middle Gate. The second half of Baba Kama continues > with cases involving stolen items. Baba Metzia continues with civil > law, particularly cases involving damages: among the topics are found > and loaned articles, real estate, loans, titles, what constitutes > usury and fraud, and labor law. Many of the cases in Baba Metzia are > extremely convoluted, more so than usual. There are a few scattered > legends about the life and death of the principal authors of the > Talmud, and some notable passages, mostly in Chapter IV. > > Book 7: Tract Baba Bathra (Last Gate) > This, the third part of the 'Gate' sequence of tracts, deals with > issues of civil law regarding property, including real estate, > moveable possessions, and inheritance, in the usual great detail. At > times the discussion becomes so hypothetical that Rodkinson, > thankfully, skips ahead a bit. Sandwiched in this very dry volume is > one wild section of Haggada (at the end of Chapter V) which consists > of some very tall tales about fish, alligators and nautical going- > ons. Also, notably, this tract includes what has to be one of the > first attempts to discuss where transgender people fit into the legal > framework. > > Book 8: Tract Sanhedrin: Section Jurisprudence (Damages) > The subject matter of Tract Sanhedrin is principally about crime and > punishment. One of the most notable discussions in this book is the > debate about the 'stubborn and rebellious son' (Chapter VIII). The > rabbis openly express scepticism that a son who disrespects his > father in a particular way should be put to death. Out of this > quibble over an obscure 'worst case scenario' we see the emergence of > a key principle of jurisprudence: the execution of divine law must be > tempered by human mercy. This book also wanders far and wide, > dispensing wisdom on such topics as the location of the lost tribes, > what the windows on Noah's ark were made of, and when the Messiah is > due to arrive. > > Book 9: Tracts Maccoth, Shebuoth, Eduyoth, Abuda Zara, and Horioth > This is the final book of the Rodkinson translation of the Talmud; it > contains the remaining portions of the Jurisprudence section. Tract > Maccoth deals with corporal punishment. Tract Shebuoth discusses > oaths: what constitutes an oath, false oaths, and so on. Tract > Eduyoth is a grab-bag of Mishna without commentary which give various > cases related to other Talmud tracts. Tract Abuda Zara elaborates the > Biblical commandment not to worship idols; it is of historical > interest because of the tangential information about what the > idolators (i.e. ancient Pagans) did or did not do. Tract Horioth is > another short tract which discusses a number of very technical > issues, including the hierarchy of dogs, cats and mice. > > Book 10: History of the Talmud > This is the introduction to Rodkinsons' translation. A history of the > Talmud, starting with its five hundred years of composition from the > first to fifth centuries C.E., and its bitter persecution from > antiquity, through the Reformation up to the 19th Century. Includes > biographies of the dozens of authors who wrote the Talmud, and a > detailed bibliography through 1900. > > ++++++++ > > NOTE FROM BOB - BELOW IS AN EXCERPT FROM AN ARTICLE THAT EXPOSES THE > UGLY HATEFUL IDEAS IN THE JEWISH TALMUD > > > II. HARM MUST BE DON TO THE WORK OF CHRISTIANS Since the Goim > minister to Jews like beasts of burden, they belong to a Jew together > with his life and all his faculties: "The life of a Goi and all his > physical powers belong to a Jew." (A. Rohl. Die Polem. p.20) It is an > axiom of the Rabbis that a Jew may take anything that belongs to > Christians for any reason whatsoever, even by fraud; nor can such be > called robbery since it is merely taking what belongs to him. > > In Babha Bathra (54 b) it says: "All things pertaining to the Goim > are like a desert; the first person to come along and take them can > claim them for his own." > > 1. CHRISTIANS MUST NOT BE TOLD IF THEY PAY TOO MUCH TO A JEW In > Choschen Hamm. (183, 7) it says: "If you send a messenger to collect > money from an Akum and the Akum pays too much, the messenger may keep > the difference. But if the messenger does not know about it, then you > may keep it all yourself." > > 2. LOST PROPERTY OF CHRISTIANS MUST NOT BE RETURNED TO THEM In > Choschen Hamm. (266, 1) it says: "A Jew may keep anything he finds > which belongs to the Akum, for it is written: Return to thy brethren > what is lost (Deuter. XXII, 3). For he who returns lost property [to > Christians] sins against the Law by increasing the power of the > transgressors of the Law. It is praiseworthy, however, to return lost > property if it is done to honor the name of God, namely, if by so > doing Christians will praise the Jews and look upon them as honorable > people." > > 3. CHRISTIANS MAY BE DEFRAUDED In Babha Kama (113b) it says: "It is > permitted to deceive a Goi." And in Choschen Hamm. (156, 5 Hagah) it > says: "If a Jew is doing good business with an Akum it is not allowed > to other Jews, in certain places, to come and do business with the > same Akum. In other places, however, it is different, where another > Jews is allowed to go to the same Akum, lead him on, do business with > him and to deceive him and take his money. For the wealth of the Akum > is to be regarded as common property and belongs to the first who can > get it. There are some, however, who say that this should not be > done." In Choschen Hamm. (183, 7 Hagah) it says: "If a Jew is doing > business with an Akum and a fellow Israelite comes along and defrauds > the Akum, either by false measure, weight or number, he must divide > his profit with his fellow Israelite, since both had a part in the > deal, and also in order to help him along." > > 4. A JEW MAY PRETEND HE IS A CHRISTIAN TO DECEIVE CHRISTIANS In Iore > Dea (157, 2 Hagah) it says: "If a Jew is able to deceive them > [idolaters] by pretending he is a worshipper of the stars, he may do > so." > > 5. A JEW IS ALLOWED TO PRACTICE USURY ON CHRISTIANS In Abhodah Zarah > (54a) it says:; "It is allowed to take usury from Apostates who fall > into idolatry." And in Iore Dea (159, 1) it says: "It is permitted, > according to the Torah, to lend money to an Akum with usury. Some of > the Elders, however, deny this except in a case of life and death. > Nowadays it is permitted for any reason." > > III. CHRISTIANS TO BE HARMED IN LEGAL MATTERS > > 1. A JEW MAY LIE AND PERJURE HIMSELF TO CONDEMN A CHRISTIAN In Babha > Kama (113a) it says: "Our teaching is as follows: When a Jew and a > Goi come into court, absolve the Jew, if you can, according to the > laws of Israel. If the Goi wins, tell him that is what our laws > require. If however, the Jew can be absolved according to the gentile > law, absolve him and say it is due to our laws. If this cannot be > done proceed callously against the Goim, as Rabbi Ischmael advises. > Rabbi Akibha, however, holds that you cannot act fraudulently lest > you profane the Name of God, and have a Jew commited for perjury." A > marginal note, however, explains this qualification of Rabbi Akibha > as follows: "The name of God is not profaned when it is not known by > the Goi that the Jew has lied." And further on, the Babha Kama (113b) > says: "The name of God is not profaned when, for example, a Jew lies > to a Goi by saying: 'I gave something to your father, but he is dead; > you must return it to me,' as long as the Goi does not know that you > are lying." > > 2. A JEW MAY PERJURE HIMSELF WITH A CLEAR CONSCIENCE In Kallah (1b, > p.18) it says: "She (the mother of the mamzer) said to him, 'Swaer to > me.' And Rabbi Akibha swore with his lips, but in his heart he > > invalidated his oath." A similar text is found in Schabbuoth Hagahoth > of Rabbi Ascher (6d): "If the magistrate of a city compels Jews to > swear that they will not escape from the city nor take anything out > of it, they may swear falsely by saying to themselves that they will > not escape today, nor take anything out of the city today only." > > IV. CHRISTIANS MUST BE HARMED IN THINGS NECESSARY FOR LIFE Jews must > spare no means in fighting the tyrants who hold them in this Fourth > Captivity in order to set themselves free. They must fight Christians > with astuteness and do nothing to prevent evil from happening to > them: their sick must not be cared for, Christian women in childbirth > must not be helped, nor must they be saved when in danger of death. > > 1. A JEW MUST ALWAYS TRY TO DECEIVE CHRISTIANS In Zohar (I, 160a) it > says: "Rabbi Jehuda said to him [Rabbi Cezkia]: 'He is to be praised > who is able to free himself from the enemies of Israel, and the just > are much to be praised who get free from them and fight against > them. 'Rabbi Chezkia asked, 'How must we fight against them?' Rabbi > Jehuda said, 'By wise counsel thou shalt war against them' (Proverbs, > ch. 24, 6). By what kind of war? The kind of war that every son of > man must fight against his enemies, which Jacob used against Esau - > by deceit and trickery whenever possible. They must be fought against > without ceasing, until proper order be restored. Thus it is with > satisfaction that I say we should free ourselves from them and rule > over them." > > 2. A SICK CHRISTIAN MUST NOT BE AIDED In Iore Dea (158, 1) it > says: "The Akum are not to be cured, even for money, unless it would > incur their enmity." > > 3. A CHRISTIAN WOMAN IN CHILDBIRTH MUST NOT BE HELPED In Orach Chaiim > (330, 2) it says: "No help is to be given to an Akun woman in labor > on the sabbath, even in a small way, for the Sabbath must not be > violated." > > 4. A CHRISTIAN IN DANGER OF DEATH MUST NOT BE HELPED In Choschen > Hamm. (425, 5) it says: "If you see a heretic, who does not believe > in the Torah, fall into a well in which there is a ladder, hurry at > once and take it away and say to him 'I have to go and take my son > down from a roof; I will bring the ladder back to you at once' or > something else. The Kuthaei, however, who are not our enemies, who > take care of the sheep of the Israelites, are not to be killed > directly, but they must not be saved from death." And in Iore Dea > (158, 1) it says: "The Akum who are not enemies of ours must not be > killed directly, nevertheless they must not be saved from danger of > death. For example, if you see one of them fall into the sea, do not > pull him out unless he promises to give you money." Maimonides, in > Hilkhoth Akum (X, 1) says: "Do not have pity for them, for it is said > (Deuter. VII, 2): Show no mercy unto them. Therefore, if you see an > Akum in difficulty or drowning, do not go to his help. And if he is > in danger of death, do not save him from death. But it is not right > to kill him by your own hand by shoving them into a well or in some > other way, since they are not at war with us." > > Article II. - CHRISTIANS ARE TO BE KILLED > > Lastly, the Talmud commands that Christians are to be killed without > mercy. In the Abhodah Zarah (26b) it says: "Heretics, traitors and > apostates are to be thrown into a well and not rescued." And in > Choschen Hammischpat (388, 10) it says: "A spy is to be killed, even > in our days, wherever he is found. He may be killed even before he > confesses. And even if he admits that he only intended to do harm to > somebody, and if the harm which he intended is not very great, it is > sufficient to have him condemned to death. He must be warned, > however, not to confess to this. But if he impudently says 'No, I > will confess it!' then he must be killed, and the sooner the better. > If there is no time to warn him, it is not necessary to do so. There > are some who say that a traitor is to be put to death only when it is > impossible to get rid of him by mutilating him, that is, by cutting > out his tongue or his eyes, but if this can be done he must not be > killed, since he is not any worse than others who persecute us." And > in Choschen Hamm. again (388, 15) it says: "If it can be proved that > someone has betrayed Israel three times, or has given the money of > Israelites to the Akum, a way must be found after prudent > consideration to wipe him off the face of the earth." > > Even a Christian who is found studying the Law of Israel merits > death. In Sanhedrin (59a) it says: "Rabbi Jochanan says: A Goi who > pries into the Law is guilty to death." > > II. BAPTIZED JEWS ARE TO BE PUT TO DEATH In Hilkhoth Akum (X, 2) it > says: "These things [supra] are intended for idolaters. But > Israelites also, who lapse from their religion and become epicureans, > are to be killed, and we must persecute them to the end. For they > afflict Israel and turn the people from God." > > And in Iore Dea (158, 2 Hagah) it says: "Renegades who turn to the > pleasures of the Akum, and who become contaminated with them by > worshipping stars and planets and sin maliciously; also those who eat > the flesh of wounded animals, or who dress in vain clothes, deserve > the name of epicureans; likewise those who deny the Torah and the > Prophets of Israel - the law is that all those should be killed; and > those who have the power of life and death should have them killed; > and if this cannot be done, they should be led to their death by > deceptive methods." > > Rabbi Maimonides, in Hilkhoth Teschubhah (III, 8) gives the list of > those who are considered as denying the Law: "There are three classes > of people who deny the Law of the Torah: (1) Those who say that the > Torah was not given by God, at least one verse or one word of it, and > who say that it was all the work of Moses; (2) Those who reject the > explanation of the Torah, namely, the Oral Law of the Mischnah, and > do not recognize the authority of the Doctors of the Law, like the > followers of Tsadok (Sadducees) and Baithos; (3) Those who say that > God changed the Law for another New Law, and that the Torah no longer > has any value, although they do not deny that it was given by God, as > the Christians and the Turks believe. All of these deny the Law of > the Torah." > > III. CHRISTIANS ARE TO BE KILLED BECAUSE THEY ARE TYRANTS In Zohar > (I, 25a) it says: "The People of the Earth are idolaters, and it has > been written about them: Let them be wiped off the face of the earth. > Destroy the memory of the Amalekites. They are with us still in this > Fourth Captivity, namely, the Princes [of Rome]... who are really > Amalakites." > > 1. THESE PRINCES ARE TO BE KILLED FIRST For if they are allowed to > live, the hope of the liberation of the Jews is in vain, and their > prayers for release from this Fourth Captivity are of no avail. In > Zohar (I, 219B) it says: "It is certain that our captivity will last > until the princes of the gentiles who worship idols are destroyed." > And again in Zohar (II, 19a) it says: "Rabbi Jehuda said: Come and > see how it is; how the princes have assumed power over Israel and the > Israelites make no outcry. But their rejoicing is heard when the > prince falls. It is written that: the King of the Egyptians died and > soon the children of Israel were released from captivity; they cried > out and their voice ascended to God." > > 2. THE PRINCEDOM WHOSE CHIEF CITY IS ROME IS THE ONE TO BE HATED MOST > OF ALL BY THE JEWS They call it the Kingdom of Esau, and of the > Edomites, the Kingdom of Pride, the Wicked Kingdom, Impious Rome. The > Turkish Empire is called the Kingdom of the Ismaelites which they do > not wish to destroy. The Kingdom of Rome, however, must be > exterminated, because when corrupt Rome is destroyed, salvation and > freedom will come to God's Chosen People. Rabbi David Kimchi writes > as follows in Obadian: "What the Prophets foretold about the > destruction of Edom in the last days was intended for Rome, as Isaiah > explains (ch. 34, 1): Come near, ye nations, to hear...For when Rome > is destroyed, Israel shall be redeemed." Rabbi Abraham also, in his > book Tseror Hammor, section Schoftim, says the same: "Immediately > after Rome is destroyed we shall be redeemed." > > IV. LASTLY, ALL CHRISTIANS, INCLUDING THE BEST OF THEM, ARE TO BE > KILLED In Abhodah Zarah (26b, Tosephoth) it says: "Even the best of > the Goim should be killed" The Schulchan Arukh, after the words of > Iore Dea (158, 1) that those of the Akum who do no harm to Jews are > not to be killed, namely those who do not wage war against Israel, > thus explains the word Milchamah - war: "But in time of war the Akum > are to be killed, for it is written: 'The good among the Akum deserve > to be killed, etc.'" > > V. A JEW WHO KILLS A CHRISTIAN COMMITS NO SIN, BUT OFFERS AN > ACCEPTABLE SACRIFICE TO GOD In Speher Or Israel (177b) it says: "Take > the life of the Kliphoth and kill them, and you will please God the > same as one who offers incense to Him." And in Ialkut Simoni (245c. > n. 772) it says: "Everyone who sheds the blood of the impious is as > acceptable to God as he who offers a sacrifice to God." > > VI. AFTER THE DESTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE AT JERUSALEM, THE ONLY > SACRIFICE NECESSARY IS THE EXTERMINATION OF CHRISTIANS In Zohar (III, > 227b) the Good Pastor says: "The only sacrifice required is that we > remove the unclean from amongst us." Zhoar (II, 43a), explaining the > precept of Moses about the redemption of the first born of an ass by > offering a lamb, says: "The ass means the non-Jew, who is to be > redeemed by the offering of a lamb, which is the dispersed sheep of > Israel. But if he refuses to be redeemed, then break his > skull....They should be taken out of the book of the living, for it > is said about them: He who sins against me, I shall take out of the > book of life." > > VII. THOSE WHO KILLO CHRISTIANS SHALL HAVE A HIGH PLACE IN HEAVEN In > Zohar (I, 38b, and 39a) it says: "In the palaces of the fourth heaven > are those who lamented over Sion and Jerusalem, and all those who > destroyed idolatrous nations...and those who killed off people who > worship idols are clothed in purple garments so that they may be > recognized and honored." > > VIII. JEWS MUST NEVER CEASE TO EXTERMINATE THE GOIM; THEY MUST NEVER > LEAVE THEM IN PEACE AND NEVER SUBMIT TO THEM In Hilhoth Akum (X, 1) > it says: "Do not eat with idolaters, nor permit them to worship their > idols; for it is written: Make no covenant with them, nor show mercy > unto them (Deuter. ch. 7, 2). Either turn away from their idols or > kill them." > > Ibidem (X, 7): "In places where Jews are strong, no idolater must be > allowed to remain..." > > IX. ALL JEWS ARE OBLIGED TO UNITE TOGETHER TO DESTROY TRAITORS AMONG > THEM In Choschen Hamm. (338, 16) it says: "All the inhabitants of a > city are obliged to contribute to the expense of killing a traitor, > even those who have to pay other taxes." > > X. NO FESTIVAL, NO MATTER HOW SOLEMN, MUST PREVENT THE BEHEADING OF A > CHRISTIAN In Pesachim (49b) it says: "Rabbi Eliezer said: It is > permitted to cut off the head of an 'idiot' [one of the people of the > Earth] on the feast of the Atonement when it falls on the Sabbath. > His disciples said to him: Rabbi, you should rather say to sacrifice. > But he replied: By no means, for it is necessary to pray while > sacrificing, and there is no need of prayers when you behead someone." > > XI. THE ONE OBJECT OF ALL THE ACTIONS AND PRAYERS OF THE JEWS SHOULD > BE TO DESTROY THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION Thus the Jews picture their > Messiah and Liberator whom they expect, as a persecutor who will > inflict great calamities upon non-Jews. The Talmud lists three great > evils which will come upon the world when the Messiah comes. In > Schabbath (118a) it says: "Whoever eats three meals on the Sabbath > shall be saved from the three evils: from the punishments of the > Messiah, from the pain of hell and from the war of Magog; for it is > written: Behold, I shall send you Elias the Prophet before the coming > of the 'Day' of the Lord, etc > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Paul" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > A rational refutation? How does "The talmud is satanic" deserving > of > > anything but ridicule? clearly this person lacks a rational mind. > So > > any "rational" refutation is a waste of time. It's throwing pearls > at > > swine, imo. > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Terry L Parker" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > > Bruce, where are the URLs to the posts containing the alleged > > > violations? > > > > > > Be aware, you have two strikes against you already when you > > > attempt to stifle another's advocacy instead of giving it > > > RATIONAL refutation. > > > > > > Larry, this is NOT the 'Talmud is/is not word of God' forum! > > > > > > Moderation will be imposed upon those who will not moderate > > > themselves :( > > > > > > > > > Moderator, > > > -Terry Liberty Parker > > > see Moderator Clarification > > > at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian/message/42410 > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Bruce Cohen > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Here are your quotes: > > > > "The Talmud is satanic" > > > > "The holocaust is a hoax" > > > > > > > > That would be all the support I need for my claim of insanity > and > > > > unreasonableness on the part of the poster. > > > > > > > > Terry L Parker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Bruce, calling a poster 'a crazy, loony-tunes nut' is a > > > > violation in THIS forum! > > > > > > > > Also, if you don't provide SPECIFIC in context quotes, > > > > WITH URLs to the here archived post in which each quoted > > > > alleged violation appears, it is you that is engaging > > > > in ad hominem :( > > > > > > > > Attack the message, NOT the messenger(s) in THIS forum! > > > > > > > > > > > > Moderator, > > > > -Terry Liberty Parker > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Bruce Cohen > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > He is factually incorrect, over and over again. > > > > > He calls me a "Nazi". > > > > > He calls Jews in general "pedophiles". > > > > > That's not enough? > > > > > There is plenty more if you want... > > > > > > > > > > He is a crazy, loony-tunes nut. > > > > > Punch his ticket, please. > > > > > > > > > > Terry L Parker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Jeff, I'm not that crazy about his style either :( > > > > > > > > > > But, I have not yet seen specific quotes that violate policy, > > > > > mine or Yahoo's. I'm visually impaired and do not read evey > > > > > last line of every post; so I may have missed something. > Btw, > > > > > when this has come up before, he claims to NOT be anti- > Jewish. > > > > > He appareently is in one faction of Judiasm that is opposed > to > > > > > some others. Specific to THIS forum, he maintains that he is > > > > > opposed to STATIST (Zionist?) aggressions. Both you and > Bruce > > > > > have made some broad allegations about his advocacy that > would > > > > > have more credibility if accompanied by specific IN context > > > > quotes. > > > > > > > > > > I'm always reluctant to stifle expression in this forum if it > is > > > > > indeed 'ON-topic' > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mdoderator, > > > > > -Terry Liberty Parker > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Jeffrey Smith" > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Bruce Cohen > > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm thinking that Mister Lawson's constant barrage of > hate > > > mail > > > > > is > > > > > > a violation > > > > > > > of the Libertarian @ Yahoo Groups guidelines. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > His calling Jews and Israelis "more" than qualifies as an > Ad > > > > > > Hominem > > > > > > > attack, not to mention his constant repetition of his > crazy > > > > ideas > > > > > > on this line. > > > > > > > Add to this his assault on all things Jewish, and his > > > > continuing > > > > > > pedophile > > > > > > > accusations, none of which are either true or relevant to > > > > > > Libertarianism... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This anti-semitic person adds nothing to the discussion > or > > > > > > promition of > > > > > > > Libertarian politics and is truly a reflection of some of > > > what > > > > is > > > > > > wrong within > > > > > > > the LP. We ought not fall into the trap > of 'inclusiveness to > > > > > all' > > > > > > when the > > > > > > > person is a 'Poison Activist'. I call for Larry to be > > > > > immediately > > > > > > and > > > > > > > permanently be banned from this and all other Libertarian > > > > Groups. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll be asking Yahoo to look into this as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again: I insist Larry Lawson be banned from all > Libertarian > > > > > > > groups, lists and organizations immediately. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bruce Cohen > > > > > > > WWW.GetBruce.Com > > > > > > > 866 OC Bruce (866 622-7823) > > > > > > > Libertarian for US Congress - CA 48th, election December > 6 > > > 2005 > > > > > > > Board of Directors LP of California > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bravo. But since Terry seems to think that unless someone > > > > attacks > > > > > a > > > > > > specific person in the group, there's no violation of > > > > > > his "guidelines", and Larry has never specifically attacked > me > > > or > > > > > > you or any other Jewish member of this group. > > > > > > That Larry's posts are direct attacks on you, me, and all > other > > > > > > Jews, is a fact of which he is apparently unaware. > > > > > > > > > > > > Jeffrey Smith > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ForumWebSiteAt http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > > > > > E government Libertarian E government strategy Libertarian > party > > > E > > > > government procurement > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "Libertarian" on the web. > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms > of > > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bruce Cohen > > > > > > > > > > 949 813-8001 > > > > > > > > > > 866 OC Bruce - Toll Free > > > > > 866 622-7823 - Toll Free > > > > > > > > > > WWW.GetBruce.Com > > > > > Libertarian for US Congress > > > > > > > > > > All California Brokerage Real Estate > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one > click. > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ForumWebSiteAt http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > > > > E government Libertarian E government strategy Libertarian > party E > > > government procurement > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "Libertarian" on the web. > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bruce Cohen > > > > > > > > 949 813-8001 > > > > > > > > 866 OC Bruce - Toll Free > > > > 866 622-7823 - Toll Free > > > > > > > > WWW.GetBruce.Com > > > > Libertarian for US Congress > > > > > > > > All California Brokerage Real Estate > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/KlSolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> ForumWebSiteAt http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian Yahoo! 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