Can you provide some statistics for your claim? According to the police records, number one crime in USA is domestic violence. The main cause are either finances and jealousy. Anna
----- Original Message ----- From: mark robert To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 8:21 AM Subject: RE: [Libertarian] Re: the truth.... Anna, "While violence is undoubted related to prohibitions, prohibition is not the only cause." Of course it's not the only one. It's just the main one. Again, you maximize imperfections of the Libertarian system as a reason to dismiss it - when it never professes to be perfect, only BETTER. You maximize the inherent violence of a free society and minimize that caused by authoritarian systems. You minimize the corrupting effect of black markets with absurd claims that they do not turn people into criminals. You could not possibly be more incorrect. That is PRECISELY what drug prohibition does: creates rampant violence and turns millions upon millions of totally peaceful people into criminals every day. Are you trying to claim unawareness of this?? You base all your delusions in an old-school dark vision of the heart of man, which is in no way supported by modern psychology. You are a victim of belief in one of the oldest myths of all time: than man is generally evil by nature and will quickly destroy himself is allowed to be free, and therefore needs to be highly controlled. Yet, being a victim of this fallacy, you fit the mold of the ultimate victimizer: a wannabe government controller. News flash: GOVERNMENTS, not civilians, are generally evil by nature and would quickly destroy civilization if allowed to "be free". You want proof of this?? Try looking at the history of government. Try looking at our own Constitution. Try looking at any of the thousands of studies that validate the sound theory that aggression is a learned response, that abuse causes abuse, that oppression and the deprivation of basic needs causes violence. You even agree with the last one, but just misapply it to a natural condition of inequality. You might also look at the reduced crime of some European countries as a direct result of reduced drug prohibitions. If a government violently prohibits that which is inherently non-violent, it is CREATING criminals and INCREASING crime. You claim to be Libertarian and that your computerment would be also; yet your obsolete views of social, psychological and political fundamentals belie that position. Of course there is nothing wrong with self-help and how-to-make-money programs, but the basis of your computerment is the same old disaster (in the mask of new technology). -mark _____ I think you are oversimplifying things. While violence is undoubted related to prohibitions, prohibition is not the only cause. In fact before any drug prohibition started, violence and crime was already rampant all over the world. Just look at ancient Rome or Greece. There is saying that a good man cannot be spoiled by visiting a bar, nor bad man converted by going to church. Prohibitions do not turn people into criminals. People use prohibition to make more profits. In fact, certain social fractions thrive whenever there is a prohibition. Black markets have always existed and always will, unless there is no trade prohibition whatsoever, which is impossible since certain things should never be traded like nuclear materials or human slaves....etc.. This is why I have asked you if there was even an experiment done with a group of people to watch what would they do if put into a environment that you describe. Of course, we can blame all the ills of the world on political systems which do not follow the libertarian model. There is no doubt that this model has all potential to be superior to the others as it teaches people to take responsibility for themselves. But, I do not believe that there can be any peace ever made between those who have more and those who have less and capitalism even in the best form, creates large inequalities. So, I think that even libertarian model will fail, unless it will be able to see it as a problem and figures out how to solve it. When you talk about my program, as different, you are wrong. My program follows very closely libertarian program, but for a small modification, I would give the role of a supreme judge and a decision maker to a computer, not people. People are too subjective to be just. And I would create a program where everyone would be taught how to better himself to reach his full potential. Most social violence is either racially or psychologically motivated and has at its core 'inequality'. . If you would teach these individuals how to become" somebody" and overcome their status, the inequalities would eventually disappear. Of course, this program would have to be free. But seeing the potential profit in having a healthier society, any expense could be well worth. 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