Paul, I was only joking about the dope and koolade.
The U.S. military has one and only one purpose and that is to defend > AMERICA from direct attacks and to do nothing else. It's not here to > enforce UN resolutions, it's not here to overthrow dictators in > foreign nations, it's not here to "liberate" oppressed people abroad, > it's not here to practice "peace keeping" or "humanitarian aid" > missions, it's not here to defend nations other than our own, it's not > here to settle disputes among other nations, it's not here to train > the military of other nations, it's not here to do anything other than > to respond when we are directly attacked and never to start wars with > any nation that has not directly attacked ours and never go to war > unless a declaration of war has been made by Congress. > And with this, I am in complete agreement. William --- In [email protected], "Paul" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I don't smoke dope, I don't drink "koolade", and I don't pretend. > > America was never in danger from Iraq during the entire recorded > history of the planet earth, and there was NEVER any connection > between Iraq and Al Queda, and any documents "discovered" now, have > absolutely no credibility whatsoever. > > Nothing the UN did or said was justification for invading Iraq. > Neither the U.S., nor any other nation on earth takes orders from the > UN. The U.S. Military does not answer to the UN. > > The U.S. military has one and only one purpose and that is to defend > AMERICA from direct attacks and to do nothing else. It's not here to > enforce UN resolutions, it's not here to overthrow dictators in > foreign nations, it's not here to "liberate" oppressed people abroad, > it's not here to practice "peace keeping" or "humanitarian aid" > missions, it's not here to defend nations other than our own, it's not > here to settle disputes among other nations, it's not here to train > the military of other nations, it's not here to do anything other than > to respond when we are directly attacked and never to start wars with > any nation that has not directly attacked ours and never go to war > unless a declaration of war has been made by Congress. > > I would accept your apology for wasting our time with your pathetic > nonsense, but I doubt you really meant it. > > > > --- In [email protected], "wgilbert02" <buckygilbert@> wrote: > > > > If this all you have to say after the nonsense you posted in here and > > my rebuttal, then i want to apologize to you and the group for > > wasting time and space even trying to have an educated conversation > > with you. Please, go smoke some more dope, drink some koolade, and > > pretend its all ok. "Peace at any cost," right Paul? LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Paul" <ptireland@> wrote: > > > > > > There isn't a single valid libertarian justification for the war in > > > Iraq or anything that would make it an act of defense. Any claims > > of > > > "connections" or "ties" between Iraq and Al Queda are utter > > nonsense. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "wgilbert02" <buckygilbert@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Tom, > > > > > > > > > When the "reasoning behind that war" is that it is an > > enforcement > > > > > action pursuant to UN resolutions. > > > > > > > > Since when was the enforcement of UN resolutions the ONLY pretext > > for > > > > the war? > > > > > > > > > France has a veto on the UN Security Council, not in the UN > > general > > > > > assembly. And what of it anyway? The US has a UNSC veto as > > well. If > > > > > you set up an institution with a particular decisionmaking > > > > procedure, > > > > > the fact that that procedure may occasionally produce results > > other > > > > > than the ones you want isn't a reason for saying that the > > procedure > > > > is > > > > > invalid. > > > > > > > > The first sentence here is true. AND WHAT OF IT ANYWAY? Sir, it > > is > > > > up to the council itself, and not individual members or the > > general > > > > assembly, to determine how resolutions are to be ENFORCED, not if > > > > resolutions are passed. Thus, if every country in the UN had > > agreed > > > > it would not have mattered. Here are some of the countries that > > > > supported, in case you have forgotten: Afghanistan, Albania, > > Angola, > > > > Australia, Azerbaijan, Bulgaria, Colombia, Costa Rica, Czech > > > > Republic, Denmark, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Eritrea, > > Estonia, > > > > Ethiopia, Georgia, Honduras, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Japan, > > Kuwait, > > > > Latvia, Lithuania, Republic of Macedonia, Marshall Islands, > > > > Micronesia, Mongolia, Netherlands, Nicaragua, Palau, Panama, > > > > Philippines, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Rwanda, Singapore, > > Slovakia, > > > > South Korea, Spain, Tonga, Turkey, Uganda, Ukraine, United > > Kingdom, > > > > United States, and Uzbekistan > > > > > > > > I suppose, following your logic, if North Korea had missile silos > > > > aimed and ready to fire at the US and openly declared on such and > > > > such a day and time they would blast us, we should wait for the > > great > > > > UN to decide for us how we should defend ourselves. This is the > > > > exact logic many followed when they believed that the League of > > > > Nations could prevent WWII. > > > > > > > > I had issues with the war, both before and now, and won't pretend > > > > that I didn't. But its also not black and white as you and your > > ilk > > > > pretend. And I have never argued that the decision was invalid, > > > > because no decision was ever made on enforcement. The UN serves > > a > > > > valid purpose, but is severely flawed. Success of sorts in Korea > > and > > > > the Congo did boost its international image. However, many of the > > > > problems from the Cold War it could not stem. The effective > > > > occupation of Eastern Europe by Russia made a mockery of the > > promises > > > > made at Yalta and other war meetings. The treatment of Hungary in > > > > 1956 could not be stopped by the United Nations. Likewise, > > America's > > > > involvement in Vietnam could not be stopped. > > > > > > > > According to www.genocide.org, since the end of World War II and > > the > > > > founding of the United Nations, over 81 million people have been > > > > killed in racial, religious, and political genocides across the > > > > world. This number is 1350% greater than all those killed in the > > Nazi > > > > death camps. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But now, instead of innocents dying under the swastika, they are > > > > perishing under the blue flag of the UN and its farcical > > peacekeeping > > > > missions. Just within the past few years hundreds of civilians > > where > > > > slaughtered in Srebrenica, Bosnia, within eyeshot of 600 Dutch UN > > > > peacekeepers who felt they were not authorized to interfere. > > > > > > > > And in Rwanda, millions were killed in ethnic cleansing campaigns > > > > conducted under the nose of another UN peacekeeping mission led > > by > > > > now UN Secretary-General, Kofi Annan. Just what does the UN > > > > think "preventing genocide" means? It is obvious that the United > > > > Nations has not only failed in its mission to prevent genocide, > > but > > > > has actually acted as its enabler, leading to the bloodiest 60 > > years > > > > in history. > > > > > > > > The United Nation's incompetence extends far beyond its > > peacekeeping > > > > missions. In the fight against starvation and disease, time and > > time > > > > again the UN has mismanaged and wasted hundreds of millions of > > > > dollars of aid on spurious projects that seem aimed more toward > > their > > > > personal aggrandizement and creature comforts than helping the > > > > suffering around the world. > > > > > > > > For example, in the 1980's, at the height of the Ethiopian > > famine, > > > > the UN spent over $75 million building and upgrading apartment > > > > complexes for UN administrators and aid workers in Ethiopia while > > > > food supplies rotted on the docks, unable to reach famine > > stricken > > > > areas due to a lack of transportation vehicles. And, more > > recently, > > > > in East Timor, the UN spent over $50 million to build hotels and > > > > supermarkets for foreign visitors while neglecting the > > development of > > > > much needed local infrastructure and hospitals. > > > > > > > > The UN acts like any other European Socialist bureaucracy. The > > > > bureaucrats arrogantly assume they know what is best for others > > at > > > > all times and any decision they make is correct for the simple > > reason > > > > that they made it. Above all else, the bureaucrats protect their > > own, > > > > accepting no responsibility for errors, and ensuring that all > > blame > > > > is placed outside of the organization. The end result is the UN > > being > > > > content to give starving people what the United Nations say they > > > > need, not what the people require. If people want food and > > medicine, > > > > they get a soccer stadium. If people want a democracy, they are > > given > > > > a UN generated bureaucracy. The people want freedom, they get the > > > > status quo. > > > > > > > > The problem with the United Nations is it wants all the power of > > a > > > > World Parliament but will assume none of the responsibility > > > > associated with such power. In effect, the goal of the UN is to > > > > dictate world peace on its terms, not facilitate it in a spirit > > of > > > > freedom and democracy. An international body dedicated to the > > debate > > > > of ideas and opening avenues of diplomacy is a wonderful idea, > > but it > > > > will never work so long as the international body feels no > > > > accountability to the sovereign nations which compose it or the > > > > people of the world it claims to protect. > > > > > > > > So please, don't attempt to lecture me on the role of the UN. > > > > > > > > William > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Thomas L. Knapp" > > > > <thomaslknapp@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Quoth wgilbert02: > > > > > > > > > > > Geof, I wonder if everyone has also forgotten Ansar Al- Islam, > > the > > > > Al- > > > > > > Queda affiliate operating in Northern Iraq that tried to > > poison > > > > > > British water supplies a few years ago as well? > > > > > > > > > > No, I haven't forgotten about Ansar al-Islam, the al Qaeda > > affiliate > > > > > which operated in (Kurdish-controlled and under the protection > > from > > > > > Saddam of US aircraft) northern Iraq. > > > > > > > > > > > Since when does any sovereign country in the world need > > > > > > the permission of the UN to begin a war, irregardless of the > > > > > > reasoning behind that war? > > > > > > > > > > When the "reasoning behind that war" is that it is an > > enforcement > > > > > action pursuant to UN resolutions. > > > > > > > > > > > Furthermore, the US had more than enough > > > > > > votes within the UN to allow military assistance during the > > > > invasion, > > > > > > but France, who was one of the five countries with veto > > power, > > > > > > threatened to veto it, even if avery country in the UN was in > > > > support. > > > > > > > > > > France has a veto on the UN Security Council, not in the UN > > general > > > > > assembly. And what of it anyway? The US has a UNSC veto as > > well. If > > > > > you set up an institution with a particular decisionmaking > > > > procedure, > > > > > the fact that that procedure may occasionally produce results > > other > > > > > than the ones you want isn't a reason for saying that the > > procedure > > > > is > > > > > invalid. > > > > > > > > > > The US agreed to veto power for the WII Allied Powers on the > > UNSC, > > > > and > > > > > accepted veto power AS one of the WWII Allied Powers on the > > UNSC. > > > > Then > > > > > it brought the matter to the UN, not vice versa. > > > > > > > > > > Tom Knapp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ForumWebSiteAt http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
