Terry L Parker wrote:
>Jon, there are a few of your statements I'd like to talk with you
>about when more time allows; but, for now, I'll contend the valididty
>of this DRAFT advocated by you below:
>
>
>
>>The social contract is the key ingredient, and it is not just a
>>non-aggression compact, but a mutual defense compact, carrying a
>>duty not just not to harm others, but to actively defend them
>>against attacks by others.
>>
>>
>
>You WANT other people to have a 'duty' to defend you; and ironically
>assert validity for this 'draft' of their life, liberty and property
>based on PNDG (people are no damn good) You seem to want to violate
>people in order to save them :)
>
>Not only do I disagree with your ad hoministic PNDG; but, if PNDG was
>indeed the case, don't you see a practical problem with
>implementation of this coercive 'social engineering' approach?
>
>
I don't think "people are no damn good". The fact of human nature is
that most of them, once they come to feel themselves part of a society
of people who defend one another, will tend to be mostly good most of
the time. To to that, however, almost everyone has to have grown up in
such a society, beginning with their families. Most will even
internalize the social contract so that they protect others even if no
one sees them doing it, and feel real bonds of affection. Others will
harm others if they think they can get away with it.
The problem arises, however, when one confronts people who don't
consider us part of their society, their "tribe". We see, especially in
war, occupation, prison guards with their prisoners, and other such
situations, that people will often behave atrociously to those they
think of as "them", or even reduce to a sub-human status ("gooks"). We
Americans tend to think of all of humanity as "us", at least when we
aren't at war with some of them, but we often fail to realize that much
of humanity doesn't think that way. To them, Americans are "others", and
not part of their "tribe", entitled to have their rights respected. Many
of those people were not even fully civilized by the way they were
brought up. I have visited places filled with uncivilized people,
essentially sociopaths, most of whom did not have good, nurturing
situations in their formative years. If a person is not civilized in his
first few years he may never become civilized. And if in those early
years he is taught not to trust anyone outside his immediate family (and
perhaps not even them), he may grow up to be a person who considers
morality to restrain only his behavior with family members.
There have been a lot of studies of how seemingly good people could do
the terrible things done in places like Nazi concentration camps or
Japanese camps for American POWs. They would never have done those
things to what they considered their own, but had no compunction doing
horrible things to those outside their societies.
We also have that problem with elites within our own country, who too
often regard the general population as "others". We see it with cops as
they come to regard private citizens, treating all of them as
"suspects", and reacting violently to any questioning of their "authority".
Constitutional government is possible for a society of virtuous,
educated people. But as we have too often seen, if the civic culture is
not sufficiently developed, or declines, we get a "failed state",
alternating with rule by brutal strongmen who rule by fear and killing
all those who resist them. Try spending some time in a third-world
country where corruption is rife and civic virtue limited to a few rare
individuals. Mexico is close enough to experience that first-hand.
Travel broadens the mind and travel to low-civic-virtue countries can
lead to dismal insights into human nature under certain circumstances.
-- Jon
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