One is pretty obviously depicting the man Jupiter Mosman. But isn’t it also depicting an Aboriginal Australian? Isn’t it also depicting a prospector? Isn’t it depicting 1945? All of which are Wikidata items. But what about the photo of his grave? What is it depicting in Wikidata? Jupiter Mosman? A grave? A headstone? A tree? Charters Towers (the place)?
Yes if that is what it depicts then that is what it depicts, the whole of the depicts is to enable it to be found via wikidata queries... obviously some discretion and commonsense should be used in which aspects are worthy of being listed so "a tree" would be pointless On Wed, 17 Apr 2019 at 08:31, Kerry Raymond <[email protected]> wrote: > FWIW, I think there will be much greater take-up if the tool supports > people identifying the depicted thing by referring to a Wikipedia article > (and then, under the hood, connecting this back to the Wikidata item). > There are a lot of Wikipedians who are either not aware of Wikidata, not > interested in Wikidata, don’t understand Wikidata, or actively hostile > towards Wikidata. Having a tool on Commons that defaults to their preferred > Wikipedia (obviously with others selectable as desired) and letting them > paste in the article title will engage a lot more people. And similarly, > when viewing a File/Category on Commons, displaying the linked Wikipedia > article(s) (rather than just displaying the Wikidata) will enable people to > detect and correct errors more easily. People who contribute to Wikipedia > and Commons usually do so within their areas of interest where they possess > some subject knowledge, which we need if we are to have quality data in > Wikidata. > > > > One of my ongoing concerns about Wikidata is that a lot of modelling, > populating and MixNMatching is done by people who are not “subject matter > experts” (or even “subject matter aware”). This is leading to lots of > errors in Wikidata because of that lack of subject knowledge. Once Commons > file/categories get linked to the wrong Wikidata items, it worries me that > most contributors with the subject matter knowledge won’t be able to detect > this, or won’t be able to correct this themselves. (My own experience > suggests it’s pointless to write on a Wikidata talk page as nobody > responds, possibly because nobody is watching?). > > > > Also, there are File descriptions that contain links back to Wikipedia > articles, which are almost always to the depicted thing (if there are > several links, it’s usually the first one). Similarly many categories have > links back to Wikipedia articles and generally all the images in such > categories are depicting that concept. I think having tool support to > enable this information to be exploited would be beneficial. A human should > be in the loop to confirm, of course, but at a lot less effort than doing > the whole task manually. > > > > Having said that, I am a little uncertain of the range of things that > might be depicted. As Sandra suggests, it’s fairly obvious when dealing > with individual people, individual buildings, although less clear when > discussing group photos, streetscapes etc, where we normally use language > like “3rd from the left in the back row”. > > > > But a building exists in a town/suburb/district, so doesn’t the photo also > depict the town/suburb/district as well as the building. Doesn’t it depict > the time too? > > > > Just to illustrate my point, here’s a couple of recent uploads I did: > > > > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Jupiter_Mosman > > > > One is pretty obviously depicting the man Jupiter Mosman. But isn’t it > also depicting an Aboriginal Australian? Isn’t it also depicting a > prospector? Isn’t it depicting 1945? All of which are Wikidata items. But > what about the photo of his grave? What is it depicting in Wikidata? > Jupiter Mosman? A grave? A headstone? A tree? Charters Towers (the place)? > Again, all of these things are in Wikidata. It seems to me that pretty much > any category we have in Commons represents a concept and hence could/should > be a Wikidata item. If that’s true, then we can automate a whole lot of > “depicts” pretty easily. > > > > Kerry > > > > *From:* Libraries [mailto:[email protected]] *On > Behalf Of *Sandra Fauconnier > *Sent:* Wednesday, 17 April 2019 4:38 AM > *To:* Wikimedia & GLAM collaboration [Public] <[email protected]>; > Wikimedia & Libraries <[email protected]>; North American > Cultural Partnerships <[email protected]> > *Subject:* [libraries] Fwd: [Commons-l] Depicts statements coming to > Commons this week (15 April) > > > > Hello everyone, > > > > One of the major additions of structured data to Wikimedia Commons is > arriving later this week: Depicts statements! See Keegan's message below > for more details and links. > > > > With regards to visual arts, library and archival documents, and > specifically faithful representations of two-dimensional works and > documents: I would advise *not* to use the Depicts statement there, but to > wait for other statements to become available on Wikimedia Commons in > several weeks. > > A separate property for that purpose has been created on Wikidata some > time ago: P6243 (digital representation of) > https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P6243 - and it will only be > possible to use that in several weeks. > > Depicts is probably appropriate for other cases though: in the case of > photographs of buildings, people, objects... > > These are only rough first pointers. Modelling structured data on Commons, > and establishing best practices in that area, is - just like on Wikidata - > up to the community. > > > > Many greetings! Sandra > > ---------- Forwarded message --------- > From: *Keegan Peterzell via Commons-l* <[email protected]> > Date: Mon, Apr 15, 2019 at 11:39 PM > Subject: [Commons-l] Depicts statements coming to Commons this week (15 > April) > To: Wikimedia Commons Discussion List <[email protected]>, < > [email protected]> > > > > Greetings, > > > > (This message is also posted at the Commons Village Pump, and the SDC talk > page) > > > > The Structured Data on Commons [0] team plans to release support for > depicts statements this week, on Thursday, 18 April. The community's > testing over the past several weeks [1] helped identify and fix issues > before launch, and the development team spent time setting up extensive > internal testing to make sure the release goes as well as possible. > > This release is very simple, with only the most basic depicts statements > available. There is a significant amount of technological change happening > with this project, and this release contains a lot of background change > that the team needs to make sure works fine live on Commons before adding > further support. More parts to depicts statements, and other statements, > will be released within the next few weeks. > > A page for depicts has been set up at Commons:Depicts [2] As I can't > actually write instructive Commons policy or guidelines, I encourage those > who have tried out simple depicts tagging add a few lines to the page > suggesting proper use of the tool. I also encourage the use to be > conservative at first, as we wait for more advanced features within the > coming month or two as additional statement support goes live. > > I'll keep the community updated as the plans progress throughout the week, > the team will know better within the next day or two if things are > definitely okay to proceed with release. > > 0. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Structured_data > > 1. > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Structured_data/Get_involved/Feedback_requests/Depicts_testing > > 2. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Depicts > > > -- > > Keegan Peterzell > > Community Relations Specialist > > Wikimedia Foundation > > _______________________________________________ > Commons-l mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-l > > > > > -- > > Sandra Fauconnier (she/her) > > Program Officer, GLAM and Structured Data, Wikimedia Foundation > > Twitter: @glamwiki > > > > How Galleries, Libraries, Archives and Museums work with Wikimedia > communities: https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAM > _______________________________________________ > GLAM mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/glam > -- GN. Noongarpedia: https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com Out now: A.Gaynor, P. Newman and P. Jennings (eds.), *Never Again: Reflections on Environmental Responsibility after Roe 8*, UWAP, 2017. Order here <https://uwap.uwa.edu.au/products/never-again-reflections-on-environmental-responsibility-after-roe-8> .
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