Thanks for sharing this Jake!

Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
________________________________
From: Jake Orlowitz <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 8, 2021 5:48:46 PM
To: Wikimedia & Libraries <[email protected]>
Subject: [libraries] Re: Libraries Digest, Vol 114, Issue 3

Emily,

Pardon my poor threading. I'm on mobile.

The language sources policy is here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:NONENG<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fw%2Findex.php%3Ftitle%3DWikipedia%3ANONENG&data=04%7C01%7Ccer20%40psu.edu%7C280e95094746458df4e708d9ba9cfef7%7C7cf48d453ddb4389a9c1c115526eb52e%7C0%7C0%7C637746005722248423%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=muZcLxL4MNo6%2BgpNu%2FZ2QF3VoNUnAxuy2jWf1eAN9%2Bk%3D&reserved=0>

Jake

On Wed, Dec 8, 2021, 1:47 PM 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
 wrote:
Send Libraries mailing list submissions to
        [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>

To subscribe or unsubscribe, please visit
        
https://lists.wikimedia.org/postorius/lists/libraries.lists.wikimedia.org/<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.wikimedia.org%2Fpostorius%2Flists%2Flibraries.lists.wikimedia.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ccer20%40psu.edu%7C280e95094746458df4e708d9ba9cfef7%7C7cf48d453ddb4389a9c1c115526eb52e%7C0%7C0%7C637746005722248423%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=DP55o9aoM7r2CZpkbaDSv6dZ%2BzOESzv36DqKdHD91h4%3D&reserved=0>

You can reach the person managing the list at
        
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Libraries digest..."

Today's Topics:

   1. Question: using Russian sources on English Wikipedia (Jack, Emily)
   2. Re: Question: using Russian sources on English Wikipedia
      (Riehman-Murphy, Christina)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2021 21:44:09 +0000
From: "Jack, Emily" <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Subject: [libraries] Question: using Russian sources on English
        Wikipedia
To: Wikimedia & Libraries 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Message-ID: 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
        boundary="_000_F84F6FEB1D0C431880B1909CA2DC4D38aduncedu_"

Hi all,

This isn’t strictly a libraries question, but I’m sending to this group because 
I appreciate the brain trust here. If there’s somewhere more appropriate to 
post this question, please let me know.

A chemistry librarian I know sent this question:

“I am trying to help a professor who has written a biography of a fellow 
chemist whose original work was in Russian, starting in the 50’s. My profs 
article has been rejected as not being supported by reliable sources. The 
journals are reliable sources but they just aren’t in English, apparently a 
major sticking point. Some may not be available electronically either. 
Obviously we are looking at the articles and do have access to most in 
translation and most electronic. Reality remains, as we all know, that some are 
just not going to be translated nor available easily online. Is this the norm 
for Wikipedia? One journal they considered non-reliable was Doklady Akademii 
Nauk SSSR. Not exactly an unknown, unreliable source. We can deal with this one 
but has left me wondering about the rules, who decides what is reliable, etc. 
Would appreciate any insight and guidance I can get.”

Anyone have insights? I would be grateful!

Emily
she/her
-------------- next part --------------
A message part incompatible with plain text digests has been removed ...
Name: not available
Type: text/html
Size: 7478 bytes
Desc: not available

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2021 21:46:50 +0000
From: "Riehman-Murphy, Christina" <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Subject: [libraries] Re: Question: using Russian sources on English
        Wikipedia
To: Wikimedia & Libraries 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Message-ID:  <[email protected]
        
prd02.prod.outlook.com<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fprd02.prod.outlook.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ccer20%40psu.edu%7C280e95094746458df4e708d9ba9cfef7%7C7cf48d453ddb4389a9c1c115526eb52e%7C0%7C0%7C637746005722258400%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=xhBkzJlA2HyrKH%2BMYZ0P3kd%2FxvkEwe5YJFmLCWzLaUY%3D&reserved=0>>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;    boundary="_000_MN2PR02MB6000DF
        8256B248DF4211B30BA06F9MN2PR02MB6000namp_"

Hi Emily,

This question came my way via a colleague at Penn State who saw it on the same 
listserv.  Here were my suggestions but I'd love to hear what others think as 
well.

Christina Riehman-Murphy
Reference & Instruction Librarian
Penn State Abington


Off the top of my head, here are a few options to pass along:

Wikipedia has some built-in mechanisms for resolving and discussing disputes.  
The Talk 
page<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Talk_pages<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FHelp%3ATalk_pages&data=04%7C01%7Ccer20%40psu.edu%7C280e95094746458df4e708d9ba9cfef7%7C7cf48d453ddb4389a9c1c115526eb52e%7C0%7C0%7C637746005722268395%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=ATN2TMVDqIiqMIwKkRz58ERqGVXbrSYs%2FedMgnPeqGU%3D&reserved=0>>
 is the page for an article where editors can discuss their reasons for 
including something, answer sourcing questions, etc.  There are also guidelines 
for resolving 
disputes<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FWikipedia%3ADispute_resolution&data=04%7C01%7Ccer20%40psu.edu%7C280e95094746458df4e708d9ba9cfef7%7C7cf48d453ddb4389a9c1c115526eb52e%7C0%7C0%7C637746005722278386%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=%2BMG7%2F20EIfqFAxfEjos3FAJR%2FUjNM3eXXeZf5xDDW14%3D&reserved=0>>.
  In this case, it sounds like the article has been rejected outright over 
reliable source 
guidelines<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FWikipedia%3AReliable_sources&data=04%7C01%7Ccer20%40psu.edu%7C280e95094746458df4e708d9ba9cfef7%7C7cf48d453ddb4389a9c1c115526eb52e%7C0%7C0%7C637746005722278386%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=55MQFpU2QZZaPHhWW8woT5po3l%2FxZUkwGEggZ%2BcuQek%3D&reserved=0>>,
 which are particularly stringent for biographies of living persons (not clear 
if the fellow chemist is living).


I would suggest that the author review all of those guidelines, and see what 
can be done to address the 
concerns<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Draft_decline_or_reject_help<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FWikipedia%3AWikiProject_Articles_for_creation%2FDraft_decline_or_reject_help&data=04%7C01%7Ccer20%40psu.edu%7C280e95094746458df4e708d9ba9cfef7%7C7cf48d453ddb4389a9c1c115526eb52e%7C0%7C0%7C637746005722288616%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=HXUeMrBBQ0j963Lx9JEoKlN0LUav2BFiefh7MUpKviM%3D&reserved=0>>
 and reach out to the Help 
Desk<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Help_desk<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FWikipedia%3AHelp_desk&data=04%7C01%7Ccer20%40psu.edu%7C280e95094746458df4e708d9ba9cfef7%7C7cf48d453ddb4389a9c1c115526eb52e%7C0%7C0%7C637746005722288616%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=7kr15J6CWdtyoIJJ%2FKmvDDH97wOiK3E8HKJEG0sJGuQ%3D&reserved=0>>
 and a 
TeaHouse<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Teahouse<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FWikipedia%3ATeahouse&data=04%7C01%7Ccer20%40psu.edu%7C280e95094746458df4e708d9ba9cfef7%7C7cf48d453ddb4389a9c1c115526eb52e%7C0%7C0%7C637746005722298460%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=wGpVbuTdE%2BFHAc7h4gP8DM2rsVVJOvFUeBJCpgKFAQo%3D&reserved=0>>
  to get some feedback.  I do not know if the author speaks Russian, but that 
is also an option - translating the Wikipedia article into Russian and 
submitting it to Russian 
Wikipedia<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Wikipedia<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FRussian_Wikipedia&data=04%7C01%7Ccer20%40psu.edu%7C280e95094746458df4e708d9ba9cfef7%7C7cf48d453ddb4389a9c1c115526eb52e%7C0%7C0%7C637746005722308369%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=%2FdK6ukmmGlCpjeYRX4ZjXgc0A%2FE1ZAbBCrzVrLcnsXA%3D&reserved=0>>.

I know this situation can be very frustrating and certainly Wikipedia does have 
its problems, but it's worth chatting through these forums to see if there's a 
way to move forward.
________________________________
From: Jack, Emily <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Sent: Wednesday, December 8, 2021 4:44 PM
To: Wikimedia & Libraries 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Subject: [libraries] Question: using Russian sources on English Wikipedia


Hi all,



This isn’t strictly a libraries question, but I’m sending to this group because 
I appreciate the brain trust here. If there’s somewhere more appropriate to 
post this question, please let me know.



A chemistry librarian I know sent this question:



“I am trying to help a professor who has written a biography of a fellow 
chemist whose original work was in Russian, starting in the 50’s. My profs 
article has been rejected as not being supported by reliable sources. The 
journals are reliable sources but they just aren’t in English, apparently a 
major sticking point. Some may not be available electronically either. 
Obviously we are looking at the articles and do have access to most in 
translation and most electronic. Reality remains, as we all know, that some are 
just not going to be translated nor available easily online. Is this the norm 
for Wikipedia? One journal they considered non-reliable was Doklady Akademii 
Nauk SSSR. Not exactly an unknown, unreliable source. We can deal with this one 
but has left me wondering about the rules, who decides what is reliable, etc. 
Would appreciate any insight and guidance I can get.”



Anyone have insights? I would be grateful!



Emily

she/her
-------------- next part --------------
A message part incompatible with plain text digests has been removed ...
Name: not available
Type: text/html
Size: 8255 bytes
Desc: not available

------------------------------

Subject: Digest Footer

_______________________________________________
Libraries mailing list -- 
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
To unsubscribe send an email to 
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>


------------------------------

End of Libraries Digest, Vol 114, Issue 3
*****************************************
_______________________________________________
Libraries mailing list -- [email protected]
To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]

Reply via email to