I'll miss seeing your input on this list. This thread smells agenda-driven to me and I've avoided reading most of it for that reason.
I think that censorship is the only goal for these people. The details of how they get there don't really matter to them, nor the people they attack. On Mon, 2019-09-16 at 11:33 +0100, Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss wrote: > Stallman single handedly spearheaded the entire free software > movement > back in the 80s, and he's still going strong even today, talking at > conferences all over the world. He's a man of great integrity who > does > what he says and means what he says. > > Meanwhile, Mr. Gates is funding companies like Monsanto who are > destroying the planet. And making the world generally a very > depressing > place to live. > > Try to put things into perspective, k? > > On Mon, 16 Sep 2019 11:29:00 +0100 > Leah Rowe <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > The TR;DR version of my previous mail is this: > > > > Without the FSF, we'd be up shit creek. So please everyone grow the > > fuck up and move on, and keep doing wonderful things. This > > infighting > > helps nobody but our enemies. > > > > On Mon, 16 Sep 2019 11:19:26 +0100 Leah > > Rowe <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > I'm unsubscribing from this list. The FSF has been stagnating a > > > lot > > > over the years anyway... though I still respect them, and RMS. > > > > > > But I don't like all this spam, and most of what goes on this > > > list > > > appears to be spam nowadays :S > > > > > > Before I do unsubscribe, I'd like to impart some wisdom on you > > > all: > > > > > > While the FSF and GNU project (and RMS, in spite of his many > > > flaws - > > > hey, we're not perfect. cut the guy some slack OK? he stands by > > > his > > > convictions to the letter, and you have to respect that) are > > > wonderful, they are not the whole movement. My advice: respect > > > organisations like the FSF, but realize they don't operate on > > > their > > > own; the movement is powered by people like *you*. In fact, the > > > FSF > > > in my own personal experience is chronically understaffed and > > > most > > > of their work is done by volunteers... The FSF is what I consider > > > a > > > "thought leader" > > > - more or less like a political party. Thought leaders are great, > > > but you don't get there on thought alone. > > > > > > Keep writing free software and keep spreading the good word of > > > free > > > software and (more importantly) copyleft. Trivial stuff like this > > > shit with RMS mean nothing in the grand scheme. Just a cranky old > > > man with the best of intentions, saying things now and then that > > > are a bit weird (but I could say the same of anyone). > > > > > > And keep donating to the FSF. They *do* do excellent work in the > > > community. > > > > > > I'll leave it at that for today. I might come to future > > > libreplanet > > > conferences still. > > > > > > On Sun, 15 > > > Sep 2019 21:47:26 -0400 Steven Sullam <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > WTF? I became interested in the libre group as a more human > > > > alternative to commercial profit driven technology. I am not > > > > interesed in reading discussions of Richard Stallman's personal > > > > life or the lack of ethics in his personal behavior here. > > > > > > > > On 9/15/19 8:53 PM, J.B. Nicholson wrote: > > > > > Adrienne G. Thompson wrote: > > > > > > The record on Richard Stallman underscores that he is > > > > > > driven > > > > > > by ethical sensibilities. He's not about to approve of rape > > > > > > anytime soon. So let's just tell rms to shut up about the > > > > > > Epstein matter, not to attempt to > > > > > > defend his idols (some of which I, *personally*, know are > > > > > > not > > > > > > worth defending) and to get a female FSF colleague to > > > > > > censor > > > > > > all his comments pertaining to women before these comments > > > > > > go > > > > > > public. > > > > > > > > > > Or you could choose to not tell him or anyone else to "shut > > > > > up" > > > > > or accept a censorship regime. And you could also reject > > > > > virtue > > > > > signaling, sexism, and identity politics (regarding the "get > > > > > a > > > > > female FSF colleague"). After all, for all you know he could > > > > > select a woman who doesn't agree with your take and you'll > > > > > have > > > > > nowhere to go because he met your sexist and identity > > > > > politics-driven request. > > > > > > > > > > You could understand that he too gets freedom of speech to > > > > > say > > > > > things you don't agree with (that's what freedom of speech is > > > > > for, after all). You could choose to continue to use your > > > > > freedom of speech as you've done while also respecting his. > > > > > Counterspeech seems far more appropriate for this situation > > > > > where Stallman hasn't done anything more wrong than possibly > > > > > hold, share, and change views some others don't like. > > > > > > > > > > His comments across some posts to his personal blog make me > > > > > think I'm getting a poorly-explained half story from others > > > > > on > > > > > this topic. Considering what he wrote in > > > > > https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#14_September_ > > > > > 2019_(Statements_about_Epstein) > > > > > > > > > > > I want to respond to the misleading media coverage of > > > > > > messages > > > > > > I posted about Marvin Minsky's association with Jeffrey > > > > > > Epstein. The coverage totally mischaracterised my > > > > > > statements. > > > > > > > > > > > > Headlines say that I defended Epstein. Nothing could be > > > > > > further > > > > > > from the truth. I've called him a "serial rapist", and said > > > > > > he > > > > > > deserved to be imprisoned. But many people now believe I > > > > > > defended him — and other inaccurate claims — and feel a > > > > > > real > > > > > > hurt because of what they believe I said. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm sorry for that hurt. I wish I could have prevented the > > > > > > misunderstanding. > > > > > > > > > > https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#14_September_ > > > > > 2019_(Sex_between_an_adult_and_a_child_is_wrong) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many years ago I posted that I could not see anything wrong > > > > > > about sex between an adult and a child, if the child > > > > > > accepted > > > > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Through personal conversations in recent years, I've > > > > > > learned to > > > > > > understand how sex with a child can harm per > > > > > > psychologically. > > > > > > This changed my mind about the matter: I think adults > > > > > > should > > > > > > not do that. I am grateful for the conversations that > > > > > > enabled > > > > > > me to understand why. > > > > > > > > > > https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#13_September_ > > > > > 2019_(Epstein_donations) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Media Lab Director Joi Ito confessed that he had secretly > > > > > > accepted donations from Epstein after MIT had decided not > > > > > > to do > > > > > > so. > > > > > > > > > > > > He also accepted funds for some personal activities of his > > > > > > own. > > > > > > > > > > > > That dishonesty, and conflict of interest, make his > > > > > > resignation > > > > > > obligatory. > > > > > > > > > > > > But I fear for the effect on the Media Lab. Under > > > > > > Negroponte, > > > > > > the lab was notoriously stingy and proprietary. Ito > > > > > > corrected > > > > > > that. I fear that the next director will undo some of Ito's > > > > > > changes. > > > > > > > > > > https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#11_August_201 > > > > > 9_(Jeffrey_Epstein_committed_suicide) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jeffrey Epstein appears to have committed suicide in his > > > > > > cell. > > > > > > Or perhaps he was murdered — it is not unusual for > > > > > > prisoners to > > > > > > murder prisoners accused of sexual crimes. > > > > > > > > > > > > Epstein was accused of trafficking: bringing people long > > > > > > distances on false pretenses and then pressured them into > > > > > > sex > > > > > > or prostitution. He also reportedly raped some of those > > > > > > people. I believe those accusations, and I think he > > > > > > deserved > > > > > > to be imprisoned. > > > > > > > > > > > > Some of his victims were legally adult. Some were teenage > > > > > > minors. I don't think that makes any moral difference. I > > > > > > don't > > > > > > think rape is less wrong if the victim is over 16. > > > > > > > > > > as well as other posts on that same webpage, I see a > > > > > consistent > > > > > objection to rape regardless of the age of the victim, and I > > > > > see public contrition for changing a view he held which he > > > > > now > > > > > views as wrong. Had we followed your censorious > > > > > recommendations > > > > > back then (to either "shut up" or to "get a female FSF > > > > > colleague to censor all his comments pertaining to women > > > > > before > > > > > these comments go public") we might not have been able to > > > > > read > > > > > https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#14_September_ > > > > > 2019_(Sex_between_an_adult_and_a_child_is_wrong) > > > > > today and we'd lack any principled claim on free speech. > > > > > > > > > > Those who choose to conflate Stallman's views with those of > > > > > the > > > > > FSF or the GNU Project seem to me to be either making a > > > > > mistake > > > > > in that conflation or be opportunistic (possibly virtue > > > > > signaling). > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > libreplanet-discuss mailing list > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-di > > > > > scuss > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > libreplanet-discuss mailing list > > > > [email protected] > > > > https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-disc > > > > uss > > > > > > -- > > > Leah Rowe <[email protected]> > > > Company Director & Libreboot developer > > > https://minifree.org/ https://libreboot.org/ > > > > > > Do you know you have rights? > > > The right to privacy, free speech, the right to read > > > and the right to learn. The right not to be spied on > > > and censored by the government. > > > > > > Defend freedom. Use free (free as in freedom) software. > > > Spread freedom. Tell everyone you know about it! > > > https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html > > > > > > Minifree Ltd, trading as Ministry of Freedom. > > > Registered in England, registration No. 9361826 > > > VAT Registration No. GB202190462 > > > Minifree Ltd, 19 Hilton Road, Canvey Island > > > Essex SS8 9QA, United Kingdom > > > United Kingdom > > > > > > -- > > Leah Rowe <[email protected]> > > Company Director & Libreboot developer > > https://minifree.org/ https://libreboot.org/ > > > > Do you know you have rights? > > The right to privacy, free speech, the right to read > > and the right to learn. The right not to be spied on > > and censored by the government. > > > > Defend freedom. Use free (free as in freedom) software. > > Spread freedom. Tell everyone you know about it! > > https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html > > > > Minifree Ltd, trading as Ministry of Freedom. > > Registered in England, registration No. 9361826 > > VAT Registration No. GB202190462 > > Minifree Ltd, 19 Hilton Road, Canvey Island > > Essex SS8 9QA, United Kingdom > > United Kingdom > > > _______________________________________________ > libreplanet-discuss mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss _______________________________________________ libreplanet-discuss mailing list [email protected] https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
