* Aaron Wolf <[email protected]> [2021-04-16 09:05]: > I see boy-cried-wolf dynamics at play in all this. And there *are* > witch-hunt dynamics.
Aaron, from conversation with Deb, Danny and Alexander, I can see there are some problems that some people experience, and I am sure that there is no perfect public speaker, but those problems so far I have understood from asking and getting questions are so rare, that they cannot find it on video, and number of people complained about interruption of women being approached is so slow. So I keep the summary of fact finding here: - not first hand, but second hand story exist of more than 6 people who told how they did not find something appropriate, none of those people ever talked about it on this mailing list, and we do not know their names; there is mentioning of virgin jokes; we know that it is impossible for everybody to find something funny, it is how it is; there is mentioning of women being approached by RMS, but nothing so far illegal or problematic. There are no evidences for those, as those are second hand stories, not first hand stories; - RMS once interrupted young man in speech; and will continue doing so most probably when there are frictions in the context of free software; it comes from second hand story, but is very irrelevant as one can assume that in debates people interrupt each other; - RMS did not wear sandals; Danny did not smell his feet; as she was not so close to RMS; question is how did she see RMS not having sandals if she was not that close; that is one first hand experience that I find proper to mention; - RMS talked angrily from behind on Libreplanet 2018, but there is no URL to the video yet, please find the URL here: https://libreplanet.org/2018/program/ like which video was it> Is there something I missed? Please add more to it, let us make a list that is of first hand experiences as when people bring generalizations into public space and call for virtual character lynch, then it is best to bring the specifics, that we demonstrate we are better than the mob dynamics. I think that it is good to speak to Deb and Danny, but what I find kind of tiresome is to get the fact finding straight, but I am thankful that they brought it up in better detailed manner; now I am experiencing it as cultural differences, clash of different behavior; and I still cannot see how those personal disagreements on how human should behave are in conflict with the overall job done; I hope both of them will tell us more particulars. RMS have merits. Those personal disagreements do not justify character assassination and destruction of created merits. The outcome is far worse than what accusers wanted to bring up as an issue. Accusers are doing that what they are accusing others for. Aaron, I do not experience any war of people, neither much of conflict, what I experience is lack of communication between people and lack of tolerance to understand differences between people. For me it summarizes that people don't travel enough. They come to Libreplanet, not understanding the actual planet. Travel more, visit India, go through slam streets of Nagpur, eat with people who have long and dirty nails, swim naked in lakes around Oslo in Norway, or turban wound and face covered Muslim women serving in post offices, visit some mosques, Greece, Africa, nudist beaches in Croatia, South America, go around the world, dance and sing with people, do some projects together. Get a different view point. Libreplanet conference is not my home, I am meeting variety of people and is impossible that it fulfils my personal expectations. Maybe for Deb, Danny or others, this may be also disappointing effect due to affection to RMS, as maybe they had illusion that RMS is more than human. This is similar effect with any public or prominent person. We love them until we meet them, as then we may find something not appropriate for us personally, and start talking about it to others. In general I see these issues as unspoken communication that has to be spoken out once in a while. When people cannot speak their mind out in the moment, they will tend to speak about it later to other people. But problems are solved better if those who feel in some way offended when they speak to the alleged offender themselves. Lack of confrontation in communication is what makes them lose self esteem and they may need years to speak out what happened to them. But those personal experiences do not justify character assassinations. I would like to know more about those anecdotes. > I do not feel comfortable naming names because I do not have > permission to share stories that were told to me privately. And why you did it? I don't value any generalizations, pumped up stories, drama without end. Please be concrete and do it how Danny did it. I know people like to talk behind the back, but why not say: - do you have first hand personal experience? Tell us the story. - to be fair, tell us also some good stories, or tell us, if there was no good story at all, as compared to the bad story you have. - do not bring up anonymous, second hand story, story that is not from your personal experience, as this way you just create more rumours and rumours, there is no fact, no fact finding possible. > Also, most of the stories did not go into details, so I don't even > really know. But you said it in several paragraphs that you are raising tensions without any necessity, you are contradicting to yourself that you don't want to raise tensions, but you do raise tensions, in the end you say you don't even know. You are getting nervous but create other people getting nervous. > Like here's one story: I was at Libreplanet 2014 and RMS was speaking > and mentioned offhand how a certain sort of older computer with no disk, > they used to joke and called it a dickless computer. 10 minutes later he > apologized for the crass joke in a sincere manner before awarding some > sort of women-in-free-software award. I heard second hand that he had to > have someone pull him aside and emphasize the problem before he realized > the issue and apologized. Good story. But what I find wrong is that thought police stops RMS calling on that dickless computer joke. Hahahahhah. You people there are very very strange. Here comes the song "Sound of Silence" at proper place. As if you continue undeveloping civilization this way, one day you will not even speak between each other. Well, one common behavior and expectation for public speakers is not to mention obscene words, but other expectation is that when speaker is known to make jokes is that it is expected and welcome. Would RMS be stand up comedian, none of you would be complaining for nothing. How many stand up comedians make such and more obscene jokes? And people like it. Please.... Problem is that RMS is not a stand up comedian, but he makes jokes occasionally and some find it out of context. But that same audience would like to hear obscene jokes in a stand up comedian show. Admit it. It is hypocrisy. > This is troublesome, and you know straw-that-broke-the-camels-back > is another parable. That is troublesome my ass. That is what you say witch hunt, troublesome for joke? LOL. You really develop unreasonably as human society there, maybe in Boston, where was it. Would some Russians would be there, they would be laughing out. Problem is your development there, and desire to make every person same, same, same, let us all be same, and thus normal, normal, normal, don't do anything out of the normal way, as otherwise you are not normal, normal, normal. And you will never see how deeply you people are brainwashed. By the way none of you have converted proprietary Windoze computer to free software system during this discussion, I would give you all yellow card. -- Jean Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns Sign an open letter in support of Richard M. Stallman https://stallmansupport.org/ https://rms-support-letter.github.io/ _______________________________________________ libreplanet-discuss mailing list [email protected] https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
