Regarding the abusive moderator, it's all about trust. I trust the ones in

Regarding privacy, it's like signing don't lock your doors because burglars
can find their way in anyway if they really want to.

On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 9:18 PM, Rick Moen - <> wrote:

> Quoting Lior W. (opensource.*
> > Interesting. I did notice it's hard to conduct serious discussions in
> > forums, but it's harder to find mailing lists for a given subject.
> As Garbo's 'Ninotchka' phrased it, 'Fewer but better.'  ;->
> > Anyway, I can't really counter your statements except:
> > 1) Doesn't the ability to not be notified about each and every topic
> > worth the troubles?
> Obviously a matter of perception and opinion.  I find my own local
> filtering and scoring of incoming SMTP mail to meet my needs in that
> regard.  FWIW, newsgroup forums are now unfashionable but offer many
> advantages in these and similar areas.  (BTW, a cynic might also suggest
> that Web-based media are heavily pushed by some folks -- present company
> excluded -- over both mailing lists because Web media better support
> advertising and user-tracking / datamining.)
> > 2) A javascript forum would solve the threading issue. See the Israeli
> >
> What's the expression in Ivrit?  'Hetzi-hetzi'?  ;->  Even the best
> implementation of threading in Web fora pretty much is mediocre compared
> to the RFC-defined implementation built right into SMTP.  (Again, my
> opinion, but I think you'll find it widely shared.)
> > 3) Many forums have a PM system which solves the need for a personal
> > contact while protecting the privacy of the e-mail address (which is
> > easier to abuse and harder to change).
> 1.  A private messaging system is not fully out of band.  In the
> pathological case of, say, an abusive moderator, it is not unknown for
> a valued user to be just quietly banned and thus not reachable via PM,
> either.
> 2.  'Privacy of the e-mail address' calls to mind the school of thought
> I call 'hiding from spammers'.  That view (that it is useful or
> necessary to conceal one's e-mail address to be unfindable) is held by
> some even in the technical community, perhaps some on this mailing list,
> even.  I do not care to discuss the matter in any further depth here, as
> it is off-topic, but:  Hiding from spammers doesn't work.
> There is a particular meaning I intend by that, and I commonly hear
> objections that miss my meaning and focus on edge-cases that ignore the
> general truth.  Anyway, I am willing to discuss the matter further
> elsewhere but not here.
> > 4) I think one of the biggest downsides of a mailing list is the lack of
> a
> > search engine.
> The popularity of GNU Mailman and Sympa (among others), with their
> built-in Web archivers, over majordomo starting around 1998 has meant
> that most mailing lists are highly findable using Google Web search,
> DuckDuckGo, etc. even _if_ the mailing list admins never bother
> implementing local-site searching.
> For an entertaining read, enter this into Google Web search:
> 'dueling banjos'
> Context:
>   Dueling Banjos Effect
>   Term coined
>   (
>   by Jim Penny for self-perpetuating Internet prominence caused by
>   feedback loops between search engines and Internet discussion fora.
>   Refers in particular to bizarre and perplexing instances of such
>   freaky fame.
>   The eponymous example was triggered by one Martin Eldridge's deeply
>   mistaken query (
>   on the Debian Linux distribution developers' mailing list
>   (debian-devel), in July 2000: "Could you please send me the sheet music
>   for Dueling Banjos, Regards Martin". Which in turn lent that mailing
>   list high prominence on all subsequent Google searches for "sheet music
>   Dueling Banjos", which lead to other people's (completely inappropriate)
>   queries much like Eldridge's, and so on.
>   To head off the inevitable queries *I* would otherwise get:
>   No, I don't have that sheet music. Neither does the Debian Project,
>   despite porting efforts
>   (
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