Well I said what I had to say. My problem is not really the prefix
name but the existence of other prefixes then lift, that are
interpreted by lift. It's just how I see things now and nothing on
this thread provided sufficient arguments to convince me
otherwise ...
not much else for me to do if majority and especially DPP thinks
otherwise. It is what it is I guess.
Br's,
Marius
On Oct 1, 4:18 am, Naftoli Gugenheim <naftoli...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think everyone agrees in concept, that an arbitrary prefix sets a bad
> precendent, which is why it is no longer do:par. But on the other hand, if
> the part after "lift:" is either a reserved word or a "user" word--a snippet
> name--then the more reserved words, the more you limit snippet names. (Should
> S.mapSnippet("parallel", ...) throw an exception?)
> So we have these two considerations on either end of the spectrum. Arguably,
> "liftx" as a prefix satisfies both--it is sufficiently generic to include
> almost any "special" attribute that may be added, it clearly spells out
> "extended lift attribute," and on the other hand it keeps reserved lift
> attributes separate from the user's snippet namespace.
> Now let's bear in mind that this is all only relevant in the future, when
> lift: attributes indeed will be interpreted as lift:snippet="..." is now. At
> that point it might make sense for the explicit :snippet format to be moved
> to the liftx prefix-- liftx:snippet="..." --for the same reason, not to
> encroach on the snippet namespace.
>
> -------------------------------------
>
> marius d.<marius.dan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> It has been debated many times in slightly different contexts. To me
> it is more about clarity. We add a new prefix now, tomorrow add
> another one and so on. People would have to remember what goes where
> and mix things up. To me lift prefix is enough and quite clear. It is
> more than just s snippet thingy. It tells the user "hey this thing is
> telling the framework something and the framework is doing something
> with it". It is separating framework xml markup from the actual xhtml
> markup. Having a single reserved prefix promotes clarity and keeps
> things simple and rather intuitive.
>
> I'm not in favor of using unprefixed attributes like
> par="something" (btw I really don't like par naming :) ...) because
> unprefixed attributes should be only standard xhtml ones or the ones
> that user explicitly specifies it. So lift:parallel="true" or
> lift:async="true" should be just fine.
>
> Br's,
> Marius
>
> On Sep 30, 8:05 pm, Naftoli Gugenheim <naftoli...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Could you elaborate on why adding a new prefix may not be a good idea? And
> > is it better or worse than having it unprefixed?
>
> > -------------------------------------
>
> > marius d.<marius.dan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sep 30, 8:23 am, Kevin Wright <kev.lee.wri...@googlemail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > I thought there were issues here because anything starting lift: gets
> > > executed as a snippet.
>
> > Correct BUT lift:par or lift:parallel attributes are also applicable
> > to snippets context. They determine the snippet's execution semantics.
> > So I'm still questioning the need for a new prefix.
>
> > > I'm still for an eval: prefix, as these proposals all relate to how a
> > > page is evaluated.
>
> > > On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 5:34 AM, marius d. <marius.dan...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > lift is already a "reserved" prefix for snippets. So I'd stay with
> > > > simply lift prefix for these attributes as well.
>
> > > > Br's,
> > > > Marius
>
> > > > On Sep 29, 11:11 pm, Naftoli Gugenheim <naftoli...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> So what is your proposal? Am I interpreting you correctly that you are
> > > >> for a prefix of 'lift'? And it will be a reserved suffix?
>
> > > >> -------------------------------------
>
> > > >> marius d.<marius.dan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > >> I realize that I may be a little late here but I do have second
> > > >> thoughts about liftx prefix. Yeah, I'm not a big fan of it. I
> > > >> understand that these attributes are not really snippets or built is
> > > >> snippets but is this an enough reason to introduce a new prefix?
> > > >> Personally I don't think so. Historically lift reserved prefix names
> > > >> were heavily debated and argued and this is a little sensitive area.
>
> > > >> But the good news is that I may be the only one feeling this way about
> > > >> this and everyone else likes it so I'm just a negligible minority.
>
> > > >> Br's,
> > > >> Marius
>
> > > >> On Sep 25, 12:02 pm, David Pollak <feeder.of.the.be...@gmail.com>
> > > >> wrote:
>
> > > >> > On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 11:33 AM, Naftoli Gugenheim
> > > >> > <naftoli...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> > > >> > > If you like the idea of having them all as attributes but don't
> > > >> > > like the
> > > >> > > idea of using a single attribute ('xx:eager_eval="true"
> > > >> > > xx:parallel="true"'
> > > >> > > rather than 'xx:eval="eager parallel"' as I suggested, where xx is
> > > >> > > the
> > > >> > > prefix to be chosen) then maybe the prefix should be 'eval'.
>
> > > >> > I've changed the code to:
> > > >> > liftx:eager_eval="true"
> > > >> > liftx:par="true" | liftx:parallel="true"
>
> > > >> > The reasons for not combining them:
>
> > > >> > - They are evaluated in different parts of the code, thus
> > > >> > eager/parallel
> > > >> > doesn't make sense from a code path perspective
> > > >> > - I am reserving the value of liftx:par for future implementation
> > > >> > to
> > > >> > allow farming the snippet evaluation to another mechanism. Right
> > > >> > now, it's
> > > >> > hard-coded to use LiftActors. I can see a time when it would
> > > >> > work with Akka
> > > >> > actors or some other parallelization mechanism
>
> > > >> > > As far as "ajax evaluation" I'm not sure I'm understanding. Could
> > > >> > > you show
> > > >> > > me what you're thinking?
> > > >> > > If I have a snippet
> > > >> > > <lift:MySnippet />
> > > >> > > what would be the syntax to have it inserted via ajax?
>
> > > >> > <lift:Ajax> <!-- the snippet name will not be ajax, but you get the
> > > >> > idea -->
> > > >> > <lift:MySnippet/>
> > > >> > </lift:Ajax>
>
> > > >> > > -------------------------------------
> > > >> > > Ross Mellgren<dri...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > >> > > My 2 cents,
>
> > > >> > > I'm not sure I'm a fan of do: namespace, though I agree it would be
> > > >> > > nice to have a common one. Maybe snippet:parallel,
> > > >> > > snippet:eager_eval?
>
> > > >> > > -Ross
>
> > > >> > > On Sep 24, 2009, at 12:46 PM, David Pollak wrote:
>
> > > >> > > > On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 11:43 AM, Naftoli Gugenheim <
> > > >> > > naftoli...@gmail.com
> > > >> > > > > wrote:
>
> > > >> > > > What do you mean by "as a normal snippet"?
>
> > > >> > > > The parallel snippet processing is implemented deep inside
> > > >> > > > LiftSession. It's not a snippet. All the <lift:xxx/> tags, even
> > > >> > > > those with defaults built into Lift, are implemented as snippets
> > > >> > > > and
> > > >> > > > are invoked with normal snippet invocation mechanisms.
>
> > > >> > > > That you will nest your snippet inside a special snippet?
>
> > > >> > > > There is no special snippet. I used the word "normal" to
> > > >> > > > highlight
> > > >> > > > that it's functionality that doesn't require a change to
> > > >> > > > LiftSession
> > > >> > > > or other parts of Lift to function correctly.
>
> > > >> > > > To me it seems worthwhile to have a consistency between the two
> > > >> > > > syntax-wise, since they have some common denominator
> > > >> > > > semantics-wise.
> > > >> > > > Actually, maybe throw in eager_eval to the mix. Maybe we could
> > > >> > > > have
> > > >> > > > one eval or lift:eval or liftx:eval or whatever attribute, which
> > > >> > > > can
> > > >> > > > contain a space separated list of specifiers--eager, ajax,
> > > >> > > > parellel.
>
> > > >> > > > Anything that's prefixed with lift: is a snippet. I'm open to
> > > >> > > > unifying eager_eval and do:lazy (or do:par or do:parallel) into a
> > > >> > > > unified namespace.
>
> > > >> > > > -------------------------------------
> > > >> > > > David Pollak<feeder.of.the.be...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > >> > > > On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 10:40 AM, Naftoli Gugenheim <
> > > >> > > naftoli...@gmail.com
> > > >> > > > >wrote:
>
> > > >> > > > > A snippet attribute can be invoked with something other than
> > > >> > > > > lift:snippet="Class.method"? There's a short syntax? What is
> > > >> > > > > it?
>
> > > >> > > > There may be a short syntax (e.g., lift:Class.method) in the
> > > >> > > > future.
>
> > > >> > > > > What was used for the feature that inserts a snippet
> > > >> > > > asynchronously via
> > > >> > > > > Ajax?
>
> > > >> > > > That feature isn't done yet, but that feature is likely to be
> > > >> > > > done
> > > >> > > > as a
> > > >> > > > normal snippet.
>
> > > >> > > > > My concern is that as more features are thought up and added
> > > >> > > > > they
> > > >> > > > shouldn't
> > > >> > > > > all end up with different prefixes.
> > > >> > > > > Also, if the prefix is nothing special I would go with the more
> > > >> > > > verbose
> > > >> > > > > "parallel" because otherwise it's not obvious what it does. If
> > > >> > > > it's prefixed
> > > >> > > > > with "lift:" at least you know it's a lift tag and you can
> > > >> > > > > look it
> > > >> > > > up
> > > >> > > > > somewhere or ask on the list etc. But if you come back to some
> > > >> > > > > old
> > > >> > > > template
> > > >> > > > > that says "do:par" you may be left clueless.
>
> > > >> > > > > -------------------------------------
> > > >> > > > > David Pollak<feeder.of.the.be...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > >> > > > > On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 3:59 AM, Naftoli Gugenheim <
> > > >> > > naftoli...@gmail.com
> > > >> > > > > >wrote:
>
> > > >> > > > > > Could that be changed to lift:concurrent or lift:par etc.
> > > >> > > > > > (see
> > > >> > > > email on
> > > >> > > > > > scala-user from Marting Odersky mentioned the future use of
> > > >> > > > 'seq' and
> > > >> > > > > 'par'
> > > >> > > > > > in concurrent collections)?
> > > >> > > > > > Why use a different prefix than everything else built in to
> > > >> > > > lift? And
> > > >> > > > > > 'lazy' is arguably not what's happening.
>
> > > >> > > > > We're using a different prefix because if we use a lift:xxx
> > > >> > > > prefix, the
> > > >> > > > > snippet execution machinery will be invoked on the attribute
> > > >> > > > > and
> > > >> > > > we don't
> > > >> > > > > want that.
>
> > > >> > > > > I'm cool with do:par unless anyone has a better suggestion.
>
> > > >> > > > > Thanks,
>
> > > >> > > > > David
>
> > > >> > > > > > Thanks.
>
> > > >> > > > > > -------------------------------------
> > > >> > > > > > Jeppe Nejsum Madsen<je...@ingolfs.dk>
>
> ...
>
> read more »
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