David,

no need to appologise! I think you do all necessary to clarify issues
at hand and defend the interests of the lift community!
And I am very happy with the liftbook too! But yes I've spent two
weekends to try to accomplish some simple task and failed.

And because of that, indeed it has crossed my mind to refer back to
Rails, only because I really liked to watch those 256 video's in which
Ryan Bates explaines some small detail. (I didn't watch them all)

It would feel like a failure to me to change to back to Rails, because
I have more confidence in Lift.

But for a beginner it is not easy.

Ko



On Oct 6, 8:31 pm, David Pollak <feeder.of.the.be...@gmail.com> wrote:
> We try to make Lift accessible to a wide range of folks who want to build
> web sites.  However, there are lower-bounds on what we can do.  By and
> large, PHP is a great place to start in terms of mapping simple HTTP
> requests into simple web pages with a little RDBMS storage.
> Personally, I don't think Lift is materially more complex than Rails,
> although Rails' documentation and examples are worlds better than Lift's
> (this is not a put-down of the excellent work done by the whole community
> and Marius, Derek, and Tyler specifically, but a simple indication of being
> 4-5 years behind Rails in terms of adoption.)
>
> So, Lift may not be the right thing for the original poster.  Maybe it will
> be in two years.
>
> Sorry.
>
> On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 12:52 AM, Stefan Langer
> <mailtolan...@googlemail.com>wrote:
>
>
>
> > Not ment as a offence but you are in way over your head!
> > A couple of things:
> > 1. You say you are a non-programmer but I assume you do understand Scala?
> > Or else it is pointless to use Lift as it is based on the Scala language and
> > relies heavily on its features. Knowledge of Java is also a plus cause some
> > of the libs are not available in Scala but only in Java and it is better to
> > know Java in order to understand the libraries.
> > 2. You do have experience with websites? Complex web applications? If not
> > then I suggest you start by doing a simple static page for your design to
> > get to know the technics you are trying to use or you get yourself a
> > programmer/webdesinger to do it for you. If you are not willing to learn
> > about the technical details you will get in big trouble later on and I mean
> > trouble that can actually cost you money.
> > 3. If the above points do not seem valid for you then please get
> > professional help
> > 4. If you are not scared by the above points and you are willing to invest
> > then I suggest getting some example code and starting to disect that.
> > Take a look athttp://github.com/tjweir/pocketchangeappwhich is a
> > complete demo app in lift
> > and take a look athttp://github.com/tjweir/liftbookfor a liftbook that
> > is available freely.
>
> > Regards and good luck on your project
>
> > Stefan
>
> > 2009/10/5 koveen <liep...@xs4all.nl>
>
> >> hi Naftoli,
>
> >> thanks for your interest.
>
> >> On Oct 5, 10:50 pm, Naftoli Gugenheim <naftoli...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > Being a non-programmer, and additionally not having a Java background,
> >> > which framework are you comparing Lift to when you say it's not easy?
> >> > :)
>
> >> First I read a book about rails, explaining things from the start, I
> >> did watch quite a lot of nice video's on the web explaining some basic
> >> tricks with Rails. I think it is a system that is easy to start with
> >> but I became nervous about recurring issues about scaling, the
> >> integration of Rails and Merb and had the idea, maybe wrong, that it
> >> was a system too much in transition.
>
> >> I read part of the tutorial of Lift, installed it on my computer using
> >> Maven, but in a way I got lost.
>
> >> Then I partially read a book about Wicket. I like the system very
> >> much, especially one trick exited me: the Ajaxfallbacklink in which a
> >> link worked in a simple way when javasript is disabled , but at the
> >> same time has some Ajax functionality when Javascript is enabled on
> >> the users system. I liked this feature very much, but the integration
> >> with a database is not an integral part of the Wicket-system and can
> >> be acquired via a Wicket-Spring-Hibernate combination. This seemed too
> >> much for me to get into as a starter.
>
> >> That's how I came back to Lift. I need a stable database-connection.
> >> You need one when you hope that people will be paying some, even
> >> small, amount of money for your service.
>
> >> > Can you clarify: Is this going to be a site, or a back end to a mobile
> >> > app that sits on the phone?
>
> >> I just want to make a site
>
> >> But I hope it is clear I am not here to criticise anybody, it is just
> >> that often I feel this system is way over my head. Maybe that will
> >> change.
>
> >> thanks
>
> >> Ko
>
> >> > On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 2:32 PM, koveen <liep...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>
> >> > > Hi,
>
> >> > > Being a no-programmer and having no Java-background
> >> > > I'd like to have mentioned that Lift really isn't an easy framework.
> >> > > Having said that, I will try to read my way into this system and try
> >> > > to solve the problems I encounter.
>
> >> > > I have one question.
>
> >> > > I would like to establish a login method where a visitor of my site
> >> > > (to be) could be accepted as a valid user, based on the info the
> >> > > server receives when the visitor enters the site.
>
> >> > > In my case it will be a site for mobile phones and some mobile phone
> >> > > operators will provide me with the telephone-number of the user once
> >> > > she enters. Once a user has paid for the service,  this number alone
> >> > > should be enough to make the visitior into a valid user. Without
> >> > > needing to log in.
>
> >> > > I have read the following on:http://demo.liftweb.net/ws
>
> >> > > t's easy to "dispatch" incoming HTTP requests.
> >> > > In your "Boot" class create a PartialFunction
> >> > > that matches a pattern related to the incoming request and
> >> > > then create a short-lived controller to service the request.
>
> >> > > This code matches all the requests to "/webservices/????" and
> >> > > assigns the stuff in '????' to the variable c.  Then
> >> > > the code attempts to find a public method with that name on
> >> > > the controller.  If the method exists, it's invoked and Lift
> >> > > processes the result.
>
> >> > > I assume I will have to write my own  public method and place it
> >> > > where??? in the direcory webservices.?
>
> >> > > Maven didn't  include such a directory in my project set-up, so I
> >> > > assume this  "webservices" are on an external server and that I will
> >> > > have torefer to and  extend an existing function. Am I correct in
> >> > > this? and is there an exemple of how to write such a method.
>
> >> > > I would be really happy to make some progress, and any help is
> >> > > welcome.
>
> >> > > Thanks,
>
> >> > > Ko
>
> --
> Lift, the simply functional web frameworkhttp://liftweb.net
> Beginning Scalahttp://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890
> Follow me:http://twitter.com/dpp
> Surf the harmonics

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