ROGER TRIES TO WEAVE WITHIN A PATTERN OF PYRAMIDS,
FREEWAYS, STEAKS, AND RADICAL EMPIRICISM
Wuz up all?
Below are my(Roger's) comments to John, David B. and Carmen.
1ST TO JOHN:
[John wrote]
However, there does seem to be a second source of our knowing, which I call
intelligence.
This includes the seeming laws of logic and mathematics, amongst other
things, which are
seemingly of a different order to the raw data of
experience......[and]....Pirsig seems
to plonk all these in one basket labelled quality. I have a vague sort of gut
feeling that he is
wrong.
[Rog now replies]
I disagree with this premise. To quote Nishida, a Zen Buddhist philosopher
influenced by William James:
"The activity of thinking constitutes a kind of pure experience"
Or to just quote James directly:
"Thoughts...are made of the same stuff things are" He is referencing that
they are made of pure experience, or what the MOQ refers to as Quality.
Yesterday I compared DQ to direct experience, and sq to echoes of direct
experience. Note that the echoes are themselves experience as well, but they
are weakened, hollow repetitive patterns of the pure experience. Like a bat,
the echoes are used to guide us, and failure to focus on the echoes will
leave us lost and astray. But once in a while, we need to look beyond the
echoes and taste the 'real' world of Dynamic Quality.
If anyone is interested in reading further, I recommend "Does Consciousness
Exist" by James.
NOW TO DAVID :
[David wrote]
A question has emerged. Are static patterns real or are they just
intellectual constructs? Was there an historical evolution of the cosmos
which laid down the basis our reality before intellectual patterns
could emerge or does our experience create that "reality" in some way.
Is there really a road or do we have only maps of roads? Is there an
external reality or not?
[Rog]
The assumption here seems to be that maps and intellectual constructs are not
real. I believe that there is not one road, there are many roads. You say
that there really is an external road distinct from our intellectual
patterns of this road, but to again quote James:
"Experience, I believe, has no such inner duplicity; and the separation of it
into consciousness and content comes, not by way of subtraction, but by way
of addition...." he then goes on in his convoluted style to delineate that
the addition is other experiences. In other words, they are patterns of
experiences, or sq.
[David]
There are a zillion reasons to think there's a there there, unlike
Oakland. Things happen in space and time, not just in our minds.
[Rog]
I grew up down the road in Fremont. And to support your position, The Nimitz
seemed real enough to me!
[DAVID]
It immediately reminded me of an idea I read concerning
the big band, the birth of the universe.
[Rog]
Ah yes, the holy trinity theory of Duke Ellington, Count Basie and Fletcher
Henderson! LOL. And as for the "steak coincidence," the same reference pops
up in the new movie..."The Matrix." Which, believe it or not is about this
very subject (external reality).
Co-incidence? I think not.
Roger
PS -- Carmen, I was totally impressed with the pyramid model. It is perfect
for visualizing "going toward DQ". Using this model, I can picture DQ as
something that I get to along the higher , more dynamic/less static levels.
I can never remove myself from the patterns that are my foundation, but I can
always pursue a higher apex of DQ. Oh, and HAPPY MOTHERS DAY!
MOQ Online - http://www.moq.org
