On 13 April 2018 at 11:48, David Kastrup <d...@gnu.org> wrote: > Gianmaria Lari <gianmarial...@gmail.com> writes: > > > On 13 April 2018 at 10:00, David Kastrup <d...@gnu.org> wrote: > > > >> How about pointing out what you find hard to understand in the > >> documentation then? > > > > > > I'm not a musician and I'm a young lilypond user. So I don't like come > > here and say that this part of the documentation is not clear even if > > I would specify that it is not clear *to me*. Report this type of > > things is difficult without hurt the persons that write the > > documentation work. > > The point of the documentation is not to look pretty. It is also not to > explain things to masters of deduction and LilyPond: those will just > look in the source code of LilyPond for a definite answer. > > A lot of pain goes into the documentation _exactly_ so that people have > a dependable, infinitely patient and replicable resource for learning to > work with LilyPond without requiring personal assistance. > > Pointing to it is for the sake of making people stop asking questions > and start working with LilyPond. Not for making people stop asking > questions and stop working with LilyPond. > > One surprisingly hard lesson to learn as a project lead is that "it's > too hard for me to understand" is perfectly equivalent to "it's too hard > to understand" when I can consider myself to be part of the core > audience, whether we are talking about code, comments, or documentation. > > There may be better ways to sugarcoat stuff than I manage, but in the > end it boils down to any material needing to be able to be accessible to > its core audience. More often than not, that requires several > iterations, partly because the people initially writing the > documentation are too intimate with what they are writing about to > properly channel their core audience. >
Sure!! > If you have to fight tooth and nail for any bit of feedback, that > doesn't help. David I agree... in theory. But personally, I found very often difficult to read the lilypond documentation. Because of that I consider this a personal idiosyncrasy and I 'tend' to avoid to comment it. > > And of course, I appreciate who made the effort to write it. > > > > Regarding the example in the documentation: here it is. > > > > test = { \tag #'here { \tag #'here <<c''>> } } > > { > > \pushToTag #'here c' > > \pushToTag #'here e' > > \pushToTag #'here g' \test > > \appendToTag #'here c' > > \appendToTag #'here e' > > \appendToTag #'here g' \test > > } > > > > I simply don't understand it. I don't understand it because: it is too > > long, there are too many things, I don't understand the example goal, > and I > > don't understand the explication following the code. > > It adds material at two points to \test: in the inner parallel music, > and the outer sequential music. The first version adds successively g', > e', and c' at the front of those expression, the second at the end of > those expressions. > > Ok, it is probably trying to show to much at once. What's the scope > that you think you could deal with? Two separate examples for > sequential and parallel music (probably not a good idea to work on > multiple tags here)? Not adding more than a single term? > I'm not 100% sure having understood how to use \pushToTag but the following are the examples I personally would put in the manual. First example: \version "2.19.81" test = { a a \tag #'here {} a } { \test } { \pushToTag #'here c' \test } Second example: \version "2.19.81" test = { a a \tag #'here <<>> a } { \test } { \pushToTag #'here c' \pushToTag #'here e' \pushToTag #'here g' \test } Third example: \version "2.19.81" test = { a a \tag #'here <<c' e' g'>> a } { \test } { \pushToTag #'here b' \test } (sorry if I put the image here, but it is more clear) ... and then I would put the example about \appenWithTag (that I didn't test yet). > But then my above simple example prompted by you only added a single > term and you stated that this was not what you considered helpful. > > > But I'm sure, this is very probably my specific problem. Of course, I > > could spend some hours on it and discover how \pushToTag works, but, > > well, you can't do this for any things like this to discover that you > > don't need this commands :) > > So instead I spend hours on explaining and the documentation stays the > way it is, so we get that discussion with the next person next time > round? I'd rather get the documentation problem solved if I am > investing that amount of time. If you really think I can be useful I will be glad to help. Anyway, I took many very simple example for my personal use. One day I will put them online so that other can take advantage of it. Thank you. g.
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