Well, to be fair…
Roy wrote: >[I.e., the conditions were not representative of one's driveway or garage.] Well, if indeed the fire was started and fueled by the large number of electric cars on board, they would have been strapped down tightly in the hold. This is done to tens of thousands of vehicles shipped every week, without any damage – no scratches or dents. There are no reports of unusual conditions that would have been measurably different than having the cars parked in a garage. https://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/15/automobiles/around-the-world-with-5500-cars.html If one reads the linked Bloomberg story, one would see that the rough weather and listing to starboard occurred *after* the fire had been burning for some time and the crew unable to put it out. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-01/burnt-out-ship-carrying-4-000-vw-vehicles-sinks-in-rough-seas And, yes, agreed, when we get new solid-state battery technology, they will no doubt be safer than current lithium-ion batteries. Optimistically, they are less than a decade away, maybe less than 5 years, to achieve production-scale and expense. That would be marvelous! But until then, every EV is using conventional lithium-ion batteries. Vty, --Dennis From: ROY HARVEY <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2022 12:54 PM To: [email protected]; Chris McCarthy <[email protected]>; Paul Shorb <[email protected]> Cc: LincolnTalk <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [LincolnTalk] Safety of electric vehicle batteries Hi Dennis, Thanks for posting the link to the Pop Mechanics story. Two quotes from the story caught my eye: "The weather had been rough at the time, a spokesperson for Felicity Ace’s Japanese operator, Mitsui O.S.K. Lines transportation company, told <https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-01/burnt-out-ship-carrying-4-000-vw-vehicles-sinks-in-rough-seas> Bloomberg. The ship sank after listing to starboard..." [I.e., the conditions were not representative of one's driveway or garage.] "The fire died down on February 25 after salvage operations began; its cause is still unknown." The story has a link to another Pop Mechanics story: "Solid-State Batteries Are Here and They're Going to Change How We Live The new lithium cells can last 25 years, charge an electric vehicle in minutes, and can't start on fire." Roy Harvey On 03/23/2022 12:37 PM Dennis Liu <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: FWIW, to make a fair comparison, I’d suggest that one look at not just the numerator (the # of gas/diesel or electric vehicles that have caught fire OR the ones that have been recalled due to the risk of catching fire), but also the denominator (the total # of such cars *SOLD*). I do not know what the ratio is for either type of vehicle, but if folks are going to suggest that one is safer or more dangerous than the other, I think it’d be more accurate to cite some figures that would enable a fair conclusion. Also, consider that most fires for internal combustion vehicles occur during *operation*. It is exceedingly rare for a parked, non-running gas vehicle to just start burning; I don’t recall ever seeing a recall warning for that, nor heard of such a case happening (though, of course, it might have). There have been more than a few cases of electric cars catching fire “spontaneously” while charging, or just parked. That is a big concern, since having your electric vehicle catch fire in your garage in the middle of the night while your family is asleep atop the garage is a frightening thought. I’ll note that the Felicity Ace cargo ship carrying 4,100+ vehicles, most from the VW group (including Volkswagens, Audis, Porsches, Lamborghinis, and Bentleys) caught fire last month at sea. The crew and rescuers were unable to put the fire out; the ship continued to burn for days and ultimately sank. Investigators believe, though not conclusively, the fire started from the load of electric vehicles on board, and that’s why they were unable to put out the fire. https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a39139830/salvage-operations-underway-felicity-ace/ Having said all of this – I escaped from and walked away from *two* car fires (on the race track), and I would not let the fear of spontaneous electric vehicle fires stop me from buying one (and charging it in my garage). While possible, it is nevertheless very rare. I think EVs offer enough advantages that, in the free market, they are attractive enough to consumers that they will make up an ever-increasing portion of new vehicle sales going forward. I am very dismayed, however, at the colossal waste of taxpayer money in foolish, politically-driven subsidies that have represented hundreds of millions of dollars going down the drain. My $0.02… --Dennis From: Lincoln <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > On Behalf Of Chris McCarthy Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2022 9:12 AM To: Paul Shorb <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > Cc: LincolnTalk <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [LincolnTalk] Safety of electric vehicle batteries Recalls for potential vehicle fires are nothing new. Kia and Hyundai recently recalled 485,000 cars for this purpose, which is more than 4x the number of Chevy Bolts impacted. A consumer reports article notes that "owners of these vehicles should park their cars outdoors and away from structures until a recall repair is completed" (https://www.consumerreports.org/car-recalls-defects/park-recalled-hyundai-kia-vehicles-outside-due-to-fire-risk-a1002120529/). So Hyundai/Kia are recommending a similar interim guidance until their problem is resolved. BMW recalled 1 million vehicles for fire risk in 2017 (https://abcnews.go.com/US/bmw-recalls-million-vehicles-fire-risk/story?id=50922136). I'd personally be more concerned by having 20 gallons of highly flammable gasoline sitting in a garage. Most people don't routinely maintain their fuel system, and as someone who extensively works on my own cars (including an electric chevy for some time) I've had more than one fuel leak occur in my lifetime. - Chris On Wed, Mar 23, 2022, 08:55 Paul Shorb <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: Richard - You asked whether the GEC has any thoughts on the specific dangers of lithium batteries catching fire in EV. You noted among other things that in recent weeks two manufacturers released bulletins telling customers not to park their vehicles in a garage. I'm not a technical expert, and of course EVs are not part of what will be put before this Town Meeting, but I can offer the following. I understand from an EV owner in town that the bulletin is part of the federal car-safety system working as it should. If the manufacturer detects a possible problem, it sends out an alert called a "recall notice", which may tell you to bring your car in to have something fixed at manufacturer expense, and meanwhile take care in certain ways. Maybe some other LT reader who has received one of these EV notices can fill in here. To put this in perspective, remember that there is some risk associated with any form of stored energy, including a car's fuel tank full of gasoline. We are all familiar from TV and movies of cars being burned up by their own gasoline, and that has actually happened to our family's van. (We all got out in time, no one was hurt.) I think I'll feel very safe in an EV. - Paul Shorb -- The LincolnTalk mailing list. To post, send mail to [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> . Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. Change your subscription settings at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. -- The LincolnTalk mailing list. To post, send mail to [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> . Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. Change your subscription settings at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
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