Agree
Carol Ryan Winter st

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On Sep 28, 2023, at 8:40 AM, Lynne Smith <[email protected]> wrote:

What Dennis said! 

I agree with him.

Lynne Smith
5 Tabor Hill Road
Lincoln, MA 01773
781-258-1175
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On 28 Sep 2023, at 8:26 a.m., Dennis Picker <[email protected]> wrote:


At Special Town Meeting last year, I opened my comments by saying that I recognized the need to spend money to address genuine needs that PRD and COA/HS face.  I said that I was willing to pay taxes to address the needs.  I also said that I was against spending more to address aspirations that were wants and not needs.

I have attended every CCBC meeting except one from mid January through mid August and have made clear to that committee in public comments that I am not advocating for "do nothing."  I have been making comments and suggestions to the committee to try to ensure that a low-cost option which addresses essential needs and leaves out unnecessary aspirations is developed as a choice that is presented to the voters.

In the world in which I live, careful objective analysis, which often involves numbers, is a way to understand what are the core needs.

If such a reasonable low cost option is offered, I will vote for it.

Dennis Picker, Page Rd


On Wed, Sep 27, 2023 at 6:34 PM Lis Herbert <[email protected]> wrote:
I don’t believe for a second that numbers don’t matter — far from it. 

But I have no doubt that there is a vocal minority of people who seem to believe that by throwing numbers around — only the numbers they have seized upon as important — they give the impression that they must know what they are talking about, and should be taken seriously. 

The reality is that they won’t accept any level of public spending, even well-justified public spending for the greater good. And unfortunately, a not insignificant group of people seem to be buying into the argument because, I guess, “numbers”. There is a thin veil of credibility implied in what they are saying, and some people seem to be lapping it up — whether because they believe it, or they themselves want to punt this forever, too, and the charts and numbers make them feel like they are making a reasoned decision.

Numbers do matter. And to that point: the number crunchers say it’s okay, and I believe them.

Lis

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On Sep 27, 2023, at 6:08 PM, Edward Young <[email protected]> wrote:


The idea that someone would advocate that the residents of Lincoln should pay millions of dollars of their money to a construction project on the basis of vague aspirations about “values and beliefs", without a close look at the relevant facts -- including the relevant numbers -- is so mind boggling that words fail me.


Message: 24
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2023 19:04:53 -0400
From: Lis Herbert <[email protected]>
To: Lynne Smith <[email protected]>
Cc: Dennis Picker <[email protected]>, Lincoln
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [LincolnTalk] Community Center- size considerations
Message-ID:
<CA+LeGX1Oe7XTQxNKfa6L_f1e-64iB5r30=jub8eaxvmmqa8...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I'm sorry, but the hair-splitting -- 13,000 vs. 11,400 sq. ft. -- so clouds
the discussion that it becomes meaningless, especially when there is a
suggestion to make up that 1,600 sq. ft. with other spaces in town. Aren't
there administrative costs -- time and staffing -- associated with that way
of thinking? What is gained by slimming things down by less than 10%?

I've read through these threads, and the numbers -- oh my god the numbers.
When I listened to a podcast this week from the London Review of Books
related to this piece (which I urge you to read)
<https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v45/n18/john-lanchester/get-a-rabbit> all
I could think of was the Community Center, and the discussions that go
round and round about the usage, the square footage, the justification (or
not) for those numbers, the need to survey further, the need to start
again, etc. To quote Mr. Lanchester:

Discussions that were once about values and beliefs ? about what a society
wants to see when it looks at itself in the mirror ? have increasingly
turned to arguments about numbers, data, statistics.


And:

As the House of Commons Treasury Committee said dryly in a 2016 report on
the economic debate about EU membership, *?many of these claims sound
factual because they use numbers.?*


The idea that numbers convey credibility is nonsense. We are meant to
believe that some people possess some level of numeracy that the rest of us
can't, and that only they pay keen attention to stats and figures. And yet
these same people really just don't want to see anything built, at all:
some of them voted against the trimmed down, tiered budgets at the vote
last winter, after loudly proclaiming by email (spewing numbers everywhere)
that what we need are trimmed down, tiered budgets to choose from. This is
not arguing in good faith, this is muddying the waters so people feel like
they can't agree to anything.

Outside Donelan's last weekend I heard a woman tell CCBC volunteers "I only
know we're going to be screwed". Really? How can anybody feel good about
convincing people (or trying to convince people) of things that simply
aren't true? And should a decades-long initiative be scuttled because the
numbers are off a little bit, because a few years have gone by and things
have changed, or population has shifted, or or or?? What happens when you
survey people again, and the slow churn of committees and bureaucracy means
that new number is outdated? (Hint: that's the point of the exercise.)

And has anybody bothered to ask how many people don't take advantage of
these programs -- all of them -- because the facilities aren't up to par,
accessible, pleasant, etc.? That is a number worth talking about.

Lis



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