I think the right number of hate crimes is zero. On Mon, Dec 2, 2024 at 3:46 PM Jonathan Sheffi <[email protected]> wrote:
> Paul, > > Thank you for a fascinating email. In your first paragraph, you appear to > argue that, given your perception of the Israeli government, there are too > many hate crimes against American Jews. In your second paragraph, you seem > to argue that, given your perception of the Israeli government, the number > of hate crimes against American Jews is too low, or at least that some > unspecified amount of hatred of Jews is understandable or acceptable (your > "scale" argument). > > I may be misunderstanding, so would you please clarify? Are you arguing > that, given your perception of the Israeli government, there are currently > too many hate crimes against American Jews, too few, or are there roughly > the right amount? > > Thank you! > > Jonathan > ᐧ > > On Mon, Dec 2, 2024 at 12:12 PM Paul Shorb <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Rosa - >> One can't deny the fact that sometimes, anger at Israel seems to >> trigger/release/self-justify hate crimes against Jews in the United States. >> Similarly, hate crimes against Muslims soared after 9/11 >> <https://naacp.org/resources/hate-crimes-against-muslims>; >> African-Americans were lynched in New York City riots of 1863 >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_draft_riots> by people >> opposed to the Civil War draft; etc. All of these actions targeting >> innocent people based on race or religion obviously are terrible. >> >> However, that real-life risk isn't sufficient reason to censor good-faith >> criticism of Israel for actions that arguably also are terrible - and at a >> scale *at least thousands of times as large* as the increase in hate >> crimes in the U.S. that might result. Especially when American taxpayer >> dollars are supporting those actions, American citizens have not only a >> right, but also a moral duty, to speak out against something they believe >> is unjustly causing massive suffering in Gaza. >> >> Of course in doing so such critics should clearly focus their criticism >> on the morally responsible decision makers (e.g., Netanyahu, American >> politicians who support his policies, etc.), not Jewish people generally. >> >> - Paul Shorb >> >> On Fri, Nov 29, 2024 at 11:32 PM Rosa Elena <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> The description of the event (in the pdf attached to the original email >>> and copied below for context) is pretty one-sided and *not* conducive >>> to “thoughtful discussion” with multiple perspectives. Honestly, I am >>> shocked Bemis Hall would host an event where the description has such >>> strong inflammatory language, which could be construed as an attack on a >>> specific population, of which we have citizens living in Lincoln. >>> >>> From the event description: >>> >>> “The Gaza genocide that began over a year ago has morphed into Israel’s >>> three-front strategy to expand its borders and replace non-Jews living in >>> Gaza, Lebanon, and the West Bank with an army, citizens militia, and Jewish >>> settlements. Based on past, aggressively pro-Zionist policies, an incoming >>> Trump administration appears ready to confirm Israel as a Jewish >>> supremacist/apartheid state, and to further subjugate or eliminate non-Jews >>> living in a Greater Israel. In calling for an end to Israeli apartheid and >>> for a shared homeland for all, we join the struggle against the rise of >>> authoritarianism in Europe, the Global South, and the United States. >>> Zionism today, as ideology, theology and political project, has emerged as >>> an expression of neocolonialism, Christian nationalism, and fascism.” >>> >>> On Thu, Nov 28, 2024 at 12:33 PM Annamaria San Antonio < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Agreed. Thank you, Sara !!! >>>> I did not see this at all as propaganda and very much appreciated >>>> hearing about an event with thoughtful discussion. Dangerous ? Perhaps I >>>> did not read through but I did not see "false claims of genocide and >>>> apartheid". >>>> >>>> Peace >>>> ~Jai . >>>> >>>> On Wed, Nov 27, 2024 at 4:38 PM Sara Mattes <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I would urge all to listen/attend before passing judgement. >>>>> We have few opportunities to hear rom and question directly such >>>>> individuals with direct experience. >>>>> >>>>> Perhaps those objecting are familiar with the speakers and would like >>>>> to share their experiences so that others might know what to expect? >>>>> >>>>> Let’s keep an open mind and allow others to judge for themselves. >>>>> >>>>> Namaste, >>>>> Sara >>>>> >>>>> On Nov 27, 2024, at 12:22 PM, Jonathan Sheffi <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Amen, Forest. Ideological diversity is well and good, but let's please >>>>> keep LT apolitical and free from this sort of low-grade propaganda. >>>>> ᐧ >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Nov 27, 2024 at 11:47 AM Forest Brown <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I appreciate your wanting dialogue on this issue, but advertising >>>>>> speakers who are sharing false claims of genocide and apartheid is >>>>>> dangerous and this isn’t the platform for that. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Nov 27, 2024, at 9:07 AM, Stephen R. Low < >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> Steve Low >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:* Stephen R. Low <[email protected]> >>>>>> *Sent:* November 27, 2024 9:07 AM >>>>>> *Subject:* Exploring the Holy Land Problem: Friday, Dec 6 and >>>>>> Saturday, Dec 7 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *Palestinians, Israeli Jews, and those of us who care about them have >>>>>> never faced challenges greater than today’s.* >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *Contributing to this mess has been the Biden administration’s Holy >>>>>> Land policies, which have been—shall I be polite and say, “awkward?”* >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *Now, we await a Trump administration, whose 2016–2020 Israel >>>>>> policies were so ill-considered and unbalanced, that many believe they >>>>>> helped to incite Hamas’s murderous attack on October 7, 2023.* >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *These “realities” pose major challenges for all of us seeking peace, >>>>>> equality, and justice in the Holy Land.* >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *Rather than wring our hands in despair, the GRALTA Foundation has >>>>>> organized two events to help us shape constructive, outside-the-box >>>>>> thinking about how to refine the American people’s understanding of the >>>>>> Holy Land Problem and how to advocate for new U.S. Mideast policies that >>>>>> will improve conditions and achieve security for all who live there.* >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *Here are two (free) opportunities to hear two internationally-known >>>>>> speakers—two experts on the Holy Land’s human rights problem—who can help >>>>>> us to answer the question, “Where can we go from here?* >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *Friday, Dec. 6 @ 7:30 PMCommunity Church of Boston565 Boylston St., >>>>>> Boston >>>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/565+Boylston+St.,+Boston?entry=gmail&source=g>* >>>>>> >>>>>> *accessible via* >>>>>> * the T, between Dartmouth & Clarendon ordiscount vouchers available >>>>>> for Back Bay Parking Garage, 199 Clarendon Street >>>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/199+Clarendon+Street?entry=gmail&source=g>.* >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *Saturday, Dec. 7 @ 2:00 PM* >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *Bemis Hall 15 Bedford Rd., Lincoln, MA >>>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/15+Bedford+Rd.,+Lincoln,+MA?entry=gmail&source=g>* >>>>>> >>>>>> *park across the street at the “Stone Church”* >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *Please join us for one of these events.* >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *Our speakers:* >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> <image002.jpg> >>>>>> *Mazin Qumsiyeh **Human Rights Activist, Professor**, Bethlehem & >>>>>> Birzeit Universities* >>>>>> >>>>>> Prof. Qumsiyeh was born and raised in Beit Sahour on the outskirts of >>>>>> Bethlehem. His evolving world views have been shaped by living under >>>>>> Israeli occupation, the education he received at universities in the >>>>>> Middle >>>>>> East and the U.S., and on years of extensive travel throughout the world. >>>>>> After obtaining a doctorate in Zoology and Genetics from Texas Tech, >>>>>> Mazin >>>>>> trained at the St. Jude Children’s Research Hospital and taught at the >>>>>> University of Tennessee, Duke, and then at Yale. He is author of 190 >>>>>> scientific papers, hundreds of articles, and several books on topics >>>>>> ranging from cultural heritage to human rights to biodiversity >>>>>> conservation >>>>>> to cancer. >>>>>> >>>>>> After returning to Palestine in 2008, Mazin and his wife Jessie Chang >>>>>> founded and run (as volunteers) the Palestine Institute for Biodiversity >>>>>> & >>>>>> Sustainability and the Palestine Museum of Natural History—both situated >>>>>> on >>>>>> the Bethlehem University campus. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> <image004.jpg> >>>>>> *Mark Braverman **Executive Director, **Kairos, USA* >>>>>> >>>>>> Dr. Mark Braverman is a retired clinical psychologist and trauma >>>>>> consultant. Raised in a traditional Jewish family, he was steeped in >>>>>> Jewish >>>>>> religious observance, Bible study, the Hebrew language, and the Zionist >>>>>> narrative. Confronted by the reality of ethnic cleansing and ongoing >>>>>> colonial settlement of Palestine, Mark has devoted himself since 2006 to >>>>>> working for a future of dignity and peace for all the people living >>>>>> between >>>>>> the River and the Sea. >>>>>> >>>>>> Mark has been closely involved in the international church movement >>>>>> for Palestinian rights. He spoke at the launch of the Kairos Palestine >>>>>> document in Bethlehem in 2009 and served on the Palestine Ecumenical >>>>>> Forum >>>>>> of the World Council of Churches. He is the author of two books and >>>>>> numerous journal articles and book chapters on the Kairos movement, >>>>>> ecumenism, post-holocaust theology, Jewish and Christian Zionism, and >>>>>> Christian-Jewish relations. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> Steve Low >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> <002 v-1 Qumsiyeh-Braverman Poster.pdf> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>>>>> To post, send mail to [email protected]. >>>>>> Browse the archives at >>>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>>>>> Change your subscription settings at >>>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>>>>> To post, send mail to [email protected]. >>>>>> Browse the archives at >>>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>>>>> Change your subscription settings at >>>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>>>> To post, send mail to [email protected]. >>>>> Browse the archives at >>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>>>> Change your subscription settings at >>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>>>> To post, send mail to [email protected]. >>>>> Browse the archives at >>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>>>> Change your subscription settings at >>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>>> To post, send mail to [email protected]. >>>> Browse the archives at >>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>>> Change your subscription settings at >>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>> >>> >>>> >>>> -- >>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>> To post, send mail to [email protected]. >>> Browse the archives at >>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>> Change your subscription settings at >>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>> >>> -- >> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >> To post, send mail to [email protected]. >> Browse the archives at >> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >> Change your subscription settings at >> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >> >>
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