We don't need any political discussions here. If you know the person, meet them over coffee and have it private. We are here to find someone to clean a yard, a house, plumbers and electricians.
On Fri, Jan 3, 2025 at 3:08 PM Fred Hopengarten < [email protected]> wrote: > *Family Deaths Under Hitler* > > > > Brother of Sora Ivry Maltz > > Faga Maltz Pasternak, her husband (Motachuh Pasternak), and seven children > > Sora Angelski > > Esther Maltz > > Abraham Maltz > > Beryl Weisglass > > Pincus Weisglass > > Rebecca Weisglass, and son > > Nathan Hopengarten's son > > Beinha Hopengarten > > Chaia Hopengarten Belchatofsky > > Israel Belchatofsky's (Sol Bell's) wife and son > > Faga Hopengarten > > Karl Hopfengarten, and son > > Salomon Israel Hopengarten, *prisoner number: 72547,* > born 1921-12-12, in Warschau > > Benjamin Hopfengarten > > Esther Hopfengarten, husband, and three children > > > Total: 31 > > > > Those 31 people are the reasons that Maltz (my grandmother’s line) and > Hopengarten family members alive today in Israel and the United States so > strongly advocate for the safety of Jews. To us, it is personal. I don’t > take kindly to the idea that “From the River to the Sea, Palestine should > be free (of Jews).” Jews have learned the hard way that good will and > general consensus on international standards of behavior is not enough. > Never again. > > > > “Although there is no consensus > <https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/consensus> over the extent to > which anti-Zionism is anti-Semitic, anti-Zionism can sometimes be > indistinguishable from anti-Semitism in its expression, at times employing > anti-Semitic tropes or having a marginalizing effect on Jews.” Zionism | > Definition, History, Movement, & Ideology | Britannica > <https://www.britannica.com/topic/Zionism> > > > > Fred Hopengarten > > 6 Willarch Road > > > > > > *From:* Lincoln [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of > *Jonathan > Sheffi > *Sent:* Friday, January 03, 2025 1:48 PM > *To:* Lincoln Talk > *Subject:* Re: [LincolnTalk] A reminder…and a shout out to the hosts > > > > I appreciate your email, and I wish that we had consensus on equal rights > for the Jewish people, but no, we are not there yet as a town. > > > > The flyer for Mr Low's speaker last month called Zionism (the equal right > of Jews as an ethnoreligious minority to self-determine in their ancestral > homeland) "a modern expression of neocolonialism and fascism." In my > original synopses of the movies GRALTA is presenting, I made clear how all > these movies specifically *oppose* equal the Jewish right of > self-determination, the Jewish right to seek political power, the Jewish > right to self-defense, and so on. > > > > That's why I've been persistent in opening up this topic, because I am > seeking consensus on Jewish equal rights, and we do not have it. > > ᐧ > > > > On Fri, Jan 3, 2025 at 1:20 PM RAandBOB <[email protected]> wrote: > > There needs to be no discussion about whether Jews deserve the same rights > as other human beings. There’s no debate there: they do. > > > > The state of Israel however is not a person, it’s a country. There are > currently certain rules of engagement that people would like to see apply > to all countries. Even the United States does not abide by all those rules, > but people would like to see Israel (and the United States) abide by the > rules that were developed by a consortium of the world’s nations. > > > > Ruth Ann > > (She, her, hers) > > > > On Jan 3, 2025, at 12:30 PM, Jonathan Sheffi <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Hang on a minute. Let me make sure I've got this straight. > > > > A free flowing discussion of geopolitical matters happening 7,000 miles > away belongs on Lincoln Talk because anything goes, but when it comes to > discussing whether Jews (in Lincoln and elsewhere) deserve equal rights to > other human beings, we suddenly need to take it offline? > > ᐧ > > > > On Fri, Jan 3, 2025 at 10:00 AM Sara Mattes <[email protected]> wrote: > > LT has been around for a while now. > > It has survived and thrived and served our community well, in all its > functions- sales, free stuff, announcements or events( political and > otherwise) here and around us, appeals for causes, and yes, sometimes > contentious debate. > > The moderators have juggled competing demands and pressures. > > They have blocked certain posts and posters for a “ time out.” > > When your opinion is blocked, you are not happy- trust me, I know from > personal experience. > > > > It is easy for a subscriber ( you are here voluntarily) to opt out of > certain posts and/ or posters. > > It is the “delete” button. > > Scroll through and decide what to open, to read. > > You are not forced to read or participate. > > > > The Moderators, in my observation, have erred on the side of free flowing > speech, and let readers take responsibility for opting in or out. > > > > I for one, am glad to have this community forum, in all its iterations, > and would hate to see it change. > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > On Jan 3, 2025, at 9:28 AM, Jonathan Sheffi <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > I disagree. Political event invites inherently contain political > statements (that's how we got into this mess to begin with!). Therefore > they need to go to the new political channel along with the discussion > around them. > > > > On Fri, Jan 3, 2025, 08:33 Paul Shorb <[email protected]> wrote: > > My votes: > > Some version of suggestion #1 could be OK; I defer to the judgment of > the LT moderators. > > > > Suggestion #2 seems unnecessary. LT seems like a reasonable place to > simply post notices of upcoming events that are aimed at Lincoln residents, > even if they concern topics outside of Lincoln, and I'd rather not have to > subscribe to and monitor a separate thing. However, if the LT moderators > (or someone else) is willing to go to the trouble of setting up that > separate thing and explaining and enforcing what goes in which channel, OK > with me. > > > > - Paul Shorb > > > > On Fri, Jan 3, 2025 at 8:00 AM June L Matthews <[email protected]> wrote: > > I support this proposal. > > > > June Matthews > > > > *From:* Lincoln <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Jonathan > Sheffi > *Sent:* Thursday, January 2, 2025 10:34 PM > *To:* Lincoln Talk <[email protected]> > *Subject:* [LincolnTalk] Moving geopolitics off of Lincoln Talk – > permanently > > > > When discussions about Israel and the rights of Jewish people started, I > was personally quite reluctant to engage. I did not believe that politics > belonged on Lincoln Talk, especially political issues that happen outside > the borders of the town of Lincoln. I miss the emails about bake sales and > animal sightings and used couches. Heck, I even miss the HCA discussions. > > > > I would like us to bring this list back to its original purpose: to serve > the residents of *Lincoln*. Not Israel, Gaza, Syria, Iran, Russia, > Ukraine, China, or Taiwan. In my personal opinion, not US politics either. > I therefore would like to make a specific policy proposal to the owners and > moderators of Lincoln Talk. > > > > 1. A permanent ban on *all* discussion of geopolitical issues. This > would apply equally to the rest of the world, and perhaps even the parts of > the USA outside our 7,000 person town. > 2. This would include invitations to events in Lincoln if they focus > on matters outside of the town. Ergo, no invitations to organize for a > presidential candidate, no invitations to discuss the Middle East or > Ukraine or anywhere else. > > > > Implementation of this policy requires two things as far as I can tell: > > > > 1. The consent of the moderators to enforce this ban uniformly across > all non-Lincoln political matters. > > > 2. Updates to the Lincoln Talk FAQ > > <https://5a55e4ca.streaklinks.com/CQnB7pxOjvIKmH9_lATsVewz/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.lincolntalk.org%2Ffaq> > and Rules & Policies > > <https://5a55e4ca.streaklinks.com/CQnB7pxNDef5uqkdvQ809zEB/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.lincolntalk.org%2Frules-and-policies>. > May I suggest the following amendments: > > > > *Is my message an attempt to draw on the resources of my community?** In > other words, if you live in Lincoln and you’re asking for help from or > providing information to your community, then your message is probably on > topic even if the focus isn't on Lincoln itself. For example, if you’re > inviting people to a national political event, asking your neighbors how > they’re handling some aspect of the state tax form, or looking for the best > route to Logan Airport, it's probably on topic even if the focus is not > Lincoln. * > > > > *Does my message avoid changing the subject?** When you reply to a > message and you change the focus substantially, you may be going off topic. > For example, if a list member posts a message inviting neighbors to a > national political event, and you reply with a message that focuses on > national politics instead of neighbors, you may not be staying on topic.* > > > > I recognize that for some people, there is a genuine desire for virtual > and in-person discussions about national and global politics. I suggest > that we start a second mailing list from scratch, and everyone who wants to > talk about politics opts into it. Call it lincoln-geopolitics perhaps. All > event invitations and discussions of non-Lincoln politics go there, with > the LT moderators redirecting as necessary. > > > > I realize this is a change, and not everyone may be comfortable with it, > but I believe that moving our geopolitical event invitations and > discussions to a new dedicated forum will help us restore the Lincoln Talk > we all love. > > > > Jonathan > > <~WRD0000.jpg> > > ᐧ > > -- > The LincolnTalk mailing list. > To post, send mail to [email protected]. > Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/ > . > Change your subscription settings at > https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. > > -- > The LincolnTalk mailing list. > To post, send mail to [email protected]. > Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/ > . > Change your subscription settings at > https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. > > -- > The LincolnTalk mailing list. > To post, send mail to [email protected]. > Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/ > . > Change your subscription settings at > https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. > > > > <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> > Virus-free.www.avast.com > <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> > <#m_380795783956960512_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > -- > The LincolnTalk mailing list. > To post, send mail to [email protected]. > Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/ > . > Change your subscription settings at > https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. > >
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