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Today's Topics:
1. Re: LINK TECH IS DYING .. IDEAS ? (Stephen Loosley)
2. Re: LINK TECH IS DYING .. IDEAS ? (Ivan Trundle)
3. Before the Election, Tech C.E.O.s Were Quietly Courting
Trump (Stephen Loosley)
4. Re: LINK TECH IS DYING .. IDEAS ? (Roger Clarke)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2024 16:52:27 +1030
From: Stephen Loosley <[email protected]>
To: "link" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [LINK] LINK TECH IS DYING .. IDEAS ?
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
David writes,
>> It's waay beyond me, and I expect perhaps also beyond current ANU techies?
>> We need to do something soon dear ladies and gents, or else link won't link?
>
> Stephen, I undertand ANU own and provide for the general care & feeding
> of Link's server, and I presume other groups are (or were) also hosted there.
> Is that so? _David Lochrin_
And Stephen writes,
We have struggled with this on linux.ozlabs.org as well. It turns out
that Mailman v2 does not play nicely with DMARC not matter how you
configure it - under some conditions it will change the Cc: list and
add things to the Subject: or a footer. The best you can do is
configure it to replace the original From header address with the
list's address and turn off the subject prefix and footers.
We have decided to replace Mailman v2 with Mlmmj (Mailman v3 seems
overkill for our setup) and ar slowly migrating our lists. Mlmmj does
not (when configured correctly) alter emails in any significant way and
so DMARC setups are no longer an issue. It also has significantly
smaller overheads, but has no real web interface (all control is via
emails, and not a lot is controllable).
--
Cheers,
Stephen Rothwell
Exactly right David, As Steve says all ppl with the password can do is basically
adjust list settings, within Mailman parameters, and nothing at all under Link's
Sys hood. Stephen's keen sys level knowledge of mailing lists appears a bonus!
Maybe with Link agreement I can give the Link Mailman Admin password to any
Linker who asks on Link for it, OK, everyone ? If you can help our Link, go
ahead
Beyond this, and in relation to ANU one does not know.
Cheers all, (for)
The Link Institute
--
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2024 17:31:27 +1100
From: Ivan Trundle <[email protected]>
To: David <[email protected]>
Cc: link <[email protected]>, Stephen Loosley
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [LINK] LINK TECH IS DYING .. IDEAS ?
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Last time I looked, I could only find 9 public lists on ANU?s mailman. It?s
either because that?s all there is, or the rest are private (Link is not
listed, so I expect the latter).
https://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo
Sysadmins control ANU?s Mailman - but I?ve yet to discover a real person to
respond to my emails.
I?m a veteran Mailman sysadmin, but as a general rule, offering those powers to
list admins is a bad thing to do, and can cause issues across all lists. I
wouldn?t offer the list admin password to everyone, either - too much can be
broken, and we have no backups.
The fact that Mailman hasn?t been updated (v2.1.15 - v3.3.10 is available
today) tells me it?s dying software sitting on a forgotten server - but I could
be wrong, and there may well be a bunch of vibrant communities using it daily.
Warmly
iT
> On 8 Nov 2024, at 9:32 am, David <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> On 5/11/24 00:04, Stephen Loosley wrote:
>> It's waay beyond me, and I expect perhaps also beyond current ANU techies?
>> We need to do something soon dear ladies and gents, or else link won't link?
>
> Stephen, I undertand ANU own and provide for the general care & feeding of
> Link's server, and I presume other groups are (or were) also hosted there.
> Is that so?
>
> _David Lochrin_
> _______________________________________________
> Link mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2024 17:05:28 +1030
From: Stephen Loosley <[email protected]>
To: "link" <[email protected]>
Subject: [LINK] Before the Election, Tech C.E.O.s Were Quietly
Courting Trump
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Before the Election, Tech C.E.O.s Were Quietly Courting Trump
The executives of tech?s biggest companies largely ignored Donald Trump before
the 2016 election. This time around, they?re far more friendly.
By Tripp Mickle and David McCabe. Tripp Mickle reported from San Francisco, and
David McCabe from Washington. Nov. 7, 2024
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/07/technology/trump-tech-ceos.html?smid=url-share
When Donald J. Trump first campaigned for president eight years ago, tech
executives largely ignored him. They later atoned for their disregard by making
a televised walk through the lobby of Trump Tower in New York for a 90-minute
meeting with the president-elect.
This election cycle, tech leaders have tried to avoid making the same mistake.
Executives such as Mark Zuckerberg, Tim Cook and Sundar Pichai started reaching
out to Mr. Trump directly in the weeks and months before the first ballot was
cast.
They flattered him. They shared their troubles. They criticized his opposition.
They emphasized common enemies.
The change in strategy speaks to what business leaders learned during the first
Trump presidency and illustrates how they have adapted their approach before
Mr. Trump returns to the White House. Believing that his political positions
are fluid and his actions are often transactional, they are forging direct
relationships they hope will benefit their businesses.
In his first term, Mr. Trump criticized tech companies for manipulating
coverage of him on their platforms and opposing his agenda. He was punitive
with those he considered antagonists. In one instance, Amazon accused Mr. Trump
of pressuring the Pentagon to cancel a cloud computing contract with the
company because its founder, Jeff Bezos, owned The Washington Post.
But Mr. Trump heaped praise on Mr. Cook, the chief executive of Apple. He liked
that Mr. Cook called him directly to discuss business and economic issues. Such
direct engagement helped Apple avoid tariffs on many of its products, even as
the Trump administration cracked down on other companies that were
manufacturing in China.
This time, tech chief executives have been following Mr. Cook?s playbook. Mr.
Zuckerberg, the chief executive of Meta, spoke to Mr. Trump after an attempted
assassination in July. Mr. Pichai, Google?s chief executive, told Mr. Trump
that his campaign stop at a McDonald?s restaurant was one of the biggest things
ever on Google. And Andy Jassy, the chief executive of Amazon, introduced
himself with a phone call, while Mr. Bezos, his predecessor, called Mr. Trump
to praise his resilience after the July shooting.
The executives never offered a public endorsement, but after Mr. Trump?s
victory on Tuesday, they feted him with congratulations on X. Mr. Cook, who was
typically the last of his peers to weigh in on hot-button issues during the
previous Trump administration, offered the final word, saying: ?Congratulations
President Trump on your victory! We look forward to engaging with you and your
administration.?
Jeffrey Sonnenfeld, a Yale management professor who has advised executives and
Mr. Trump over the years, said the direct outreach and quiet wooing of Mr.
Trump were ?the right thing? to do, noting the executives? responsibility to
shareholders to have a relationship with whoever is in the White House.
?They were building a rapport,? he said. ?And that?s the right way to do it ?
establish personal eye contact and get a foundation for the future.?
Meta and Google declined to comment, while Amazon and Apple didn?t respond to
requests for comment. Some of the details of their chief executives? outreach
were shared by Mr. Trump during several podcasts and an interview with New York
magazine. Others were reported previously by The New York Times and The
Washington Post.
The tech titans? private outreach to Mr. Trump has contrasted with the public
embrace by Elon Musk, the chief executive of Tesla, and many of Silicon
Valley?s chatterbox venture capitalists. Mr. Musk hit the campaign trail for
Mr. Trump in Pennsylvania and turned his personal feed on X into a
Trump-advocacy channel, while venture capitalists donated generously to Mr.
Trump?s campaign in hopes his administration would be more friendly to their
pet causes ? crypto, antitrust and taxes ? than President Biden?s has been.
These prominent investors were ebullient on social media Wednesday morning.
When Mr. Musk posted that America?s ?nation of builders? would soon be ?free to
build,? Marc Andreessen, a prominent investor who donated to Mr. Trump?s
campaign, responded with his catchphrase, ?It?s time to build,? with an
American flag emoji.
In reaching out to Mr. Trump, tech executives were doing more than hedging
their bets ahead of a tossup election. They were also laying the groundwork for
improved relations between Silicon Valley and Washington.
The relationship between some of the tech leaders and the president quickly
deteriorated after that 2016 Trump Tower meeting. Just weeks into Mr. Trump?s
presidency, some of them criticized his executive order temporarily blocking
immigration from seven Muslim-majority countries. Sergey Brin, one of the
co-founders of Google, was spotted at a protest against the measure at San
Francisco?s airport.
Silicon Valley?s revolt sowed tension with the Trump administration. The
fraught relations continued when Mr. Biden took office in 2021.
The Biden administration put tech on its heels with aggressive antitrust action
and a crackdown on mergers and acquisitions. Over the past four years, the
Justice Department and Federal Trade Commission have filed antitrust lawsuits
against Amazon, Apple, Meta and Alphabet, the parent company of Google. The
cases have threatened their businesses, especially Google, which was ruled a
monopolist.
The F.T.C. has also cracked down on mergers and acquisitions and announced an
inquiry into investments by tech giants in artificial intelligence start-ups.
The agency?s scrutiny has been criticized by venture capitalists and others for
slowing deals in Silicon Valley and stymieing traditional opportunities for big
companies to grow.
Mr. Trump has said the leaders of those companies have expressed a readiness to
turn the page on such regulatory headaches. He has been receptive to their
appeals, listening sympathetically as Mr. Cook complained to him on a call last
month about European regulators.
?I?m not going to let them take advantage of our companies,? Mr. Trump recalled
telling Mr. Cook, during a podcast interview last month. ?That won?t be
happening.?
Mr. Trump has also voiced skepticism about the possibility that the government
might break up Google, saying he considered it a bulwark against China?s
technology ambitions. Though the president-elect has criticized the company
over the years for how its algorithm ranks news articles about him, he
expressed concern that weakening the company could be dangerous at a time of
international tech competition.
Those softer regulatory positions have lifted hopes across Silicon Valley that
Mr. Trump might replace Lina Khan, the chair of the Federal Trade Commission,
who has sought to block mergers, and Gary Gensler, the Securities and Exchange
Commission chief, who has antagonized the crypto industry.
Ms. Khan?s term has expired, and Mr. Trump will have to decide whether to keep
her. She has won accolades from Vice President-elect JD Vance, who has praised
her for being willing to go after big tech companies. But his views will be
only one of many entertained by Mr. Trump, who has a history of courting
competing opinions on issues before making final decisions.
By directly engaging with Mr. Trump, tech executives are increasing their
chances of convincing him what action to take and possibly influence Ms. Khan?s
replacement, said Adam Kovacevich, chief executive of Chamber of Progress, a
tech policy group that is backed by companies including Amazon and Apple.
?We know he?s susceptible to the last person in his ear,? Mr. Kovacevich said.
?His style of management hasn?t changed, but he may be more knowledgeable about
what to prioritize.?
Mr. Sonnenfeld said tech executives? approach in recent months shows that they
understand the value of staying united on issues. In the past, Mr. Trump sought
an advantage in negotiations by pitting competitors against each other, like
General Motors and Ford Motor. But the way tech executives have reached out to
him directly with similar messages suggests that they understand the value of
consensus.
?Trump will bulldoze you if you are too sycophantic,? Mr. Sonnenfeld said.
?Collective action is needed to avoid being victimized.?
Share full article
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/07/technology/trump-tech-ceos.html
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2024 20:58:41 +1100
From: Roger Clarke <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [LINK] LINK TECH IS DYING .. IDEAS ?
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
On 8/11/2024 17:31, Ivan Trundle wrote:
> The fact that Mailman hasn?t been updated (v2.1.15 - v3.3.10 is
available today) tells me it?s dying software sitting on a forgotten
server ...
Checking with VentraIP, which I use for various small lists, they're
also on v.2.1.39.
Checking back at source, https://list.org/:
> The current stable GNU Mailman versions are:
> 20-Oct-2023 Mailman 3.3.9 (Tom Sawyer)
> 13-Dec-2021 Mailman 2.1.39
On further enquiry, it comes with cpanel, and until cpanel decide to
make the move, a lot of the middle-ground will stay at 2.1.39.
I was wondering if I should offer to help. But, like a few of us around
here, I'm more of a short-term / stop-gap / transitional hosting option
(:-)}
__________
On 8/11/2024 17:31, Ivan Trundle wrote:
> Last time I looked, I could only find 9 public lists on ANU?s mailman. It?s
> either because that?s all there is, or the rest are private (Link is not
> listed, so I expect the latter).
>
> https://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo
>
> Sysadmins control ANU?s Mailman - but I?ve yet to discover a real person to
> respond to my emails.
>
> I?m a veteran Mailman sysadmin, but as a general rule, offering those powers
> to list admins is a bad thing to do, and can cause issues across all lists. I
> wouldn?t offer the list admin password to everyone, either - too much can be
> broken, and we have no backups.
>
> The fact that Mailman hasn?t been updated (v2.1.15 - v3.3.10 is available
> today) tells me it?s dying software sitting on a forgotten server - but I
> could be wrong, and there may well be a bunch of vibrant communities using it
> daily.
>
> Warmly
> iT
>
>
>
>> On 8 Nov 2024, at 9:32 am, David <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> On 5/11/24 00:04, Stephen Loosley wrote:
>>> It's waay beyond me, and I expect perhaps also beyond current ANU techies?
>>> We need to do something soon dear ladies and gents, or else link won't link?
>>
>> Stephen, I undertand ANU own and provide for the general care & feeding of
>> Link's server, and I presume other groups are (or were) also hosted there.
>> Is that so?
>>
>> _David Lochrin_
>> _______________________________________________
>> Link mailing list
>> [email protected]
>> https://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Link mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link
--
Roger Clarke mailto:[email protected]
T: +61 2 6288 6916 http://www.xamax.com.au http://www.rogerclarke.com
Xamax Consultancy Pty Ltd 78 Sidaway St, Chapman ACT 2611 AUSTRALIA
Visiting Professorial Fellow UNSW Law & Justice
Visiting Professor in Computer Science Australian National University
------------------------------
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------------------------------
End of Link Digest, Vol 384, Issue 9
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