Oops, sorry Jay.
Regards, Craig
Gregg C Levine
<hansolofalcon@worldn To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
et.att.net> cc:
Sent by: Linux on 390 Subject: Re: Hi there...
Port
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]
EDU>
16/04/2002 02:06 PM
Please respond to
Linux on 390 Port
Hello from Gregg C Levine writing for myself
Nice post Craig, except for one problem. His name is Jay, not John. But
I won't stun you over it. And nice to see you here, Jay, anyway.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of
> Craig Vernon
> Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 11:57 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Hi there...
>
> John,
>
> I am not a licensed or practising attorney but I do have legal
> qualifications, so I can render an opinion but not for a fee (though I
can
> for wage to my employer?? because that falls under self
representation)!
> This is my own personal opinion and I do not purport to represent
anyone
> else.
>
> I think you are right, all this talk about IBM cracking down on
Hercules,
> speaking plainly, sounds like bullshit to me. As you suggest the only
> likely claim of any infringement would be under patent law. As
copyright
> would require an actual copying of code (be it source or object) no
claim
> would succeed. Copyright protects the "written expression" not the
ideas or
> concepts embedded in it. Ideas are basically free. Patent law comes
closest
> to protecting an idea insofar as it will protect a function or an idea
as
> implemented in an invention or process. While a function might be
> duplicated by a later invention, if it goes beyond the original
invention
> and adds its own novel or inventive function, it will be considered a
new
> invention in its own right. On this basis a patent would be granted,
if one
> were applied for (so long as it were not already public - the biggest
> stumbling block to obtaining a patent). People often say that extra
amount
> of ingenuity must be 10% or more which makes it sound like an
objective
> measure, but I'd like to see how you measure ingenuity without getting
> subjective about it!
>
> Anyway, I can only guess that Hercules goes quite beyond any of the
> specific patents that IBM holds related to 360/370/390/ hardware
(and/or
> microcode), since it emulates that hardware on an entirely different
> hardware platform, and, I suspect, would satisfy the required extra
> inventive step to be considered a new and novel invention in its own
right.
> Just MHO and definitely not IBM's. Besides unless there is some
perceived
> loss of money or market why would anyone bother anyway? If IBM did
have a
> P/390 product and various follow on products and in my experience it
was
> never a big market, that is why it was handed over to IBM's business
> partners. I think you can rest easy. The internet is great for
propagation
> of fictions, rumours and sometimes even facts.
>
> Good luck with the RH installer, I had some problems initially but
just
> reloaded it and it went smoothly.
>
> Regards, Craig
>
> +61-2-9354-7283 tel +61-2-9354-7797 fax
> Craig Vernon B.App.Sc. LL.B.
> IBM Support Centre FB41
> 55 Coonara Ave
> West Pennant Hills 2125
> Sydney NSW Australia
> Visit us at http://www.ibm.com/services/au/its
>
> "You can not find a solution using the same thinking that created the
> problem." - Albert EInstein
>
> If received in error please delete and notify the sender immediately.
No
> other use permitted. Neither confidentiality, privilege nor copyright
> waived.
>
>
>
> Jay Maynard
> <jmaynard@conmicr To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> o.cx> cc:
> Sent by: Linux on Subject: Hi there...
> 390 Port
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> IST.EDU>
>
>
> 16/04/2002 11:01
> AM
> Please respond to
> Linux on 390 Port
>
>
>
>
>
> (I get 350 emails a day. Why am I joining another list?!)
>
> Hi there. I guess I should join this list, so I can see what's going
on in
> another segment of the S/390 world...especially since Hercules, the
project
> I spend most of my free time on, seems to be a regular topic of
discussion
> here.
>
> I've looked back through the archives a bit, after getting pointed at
the
> redbook discussion. I have no idea why IBM did anything; they
certainly
> haven't told me.
>
> For the record, the Hercules list is uncensored. Phil Payne's access
was
> set
> to moderated (he can still post, if approved by a list moderator)
because
> he
> was disrupting the list despite repeated requests from a large number
of
> list members to lay off on his continual FUD. He was asked to take it
to a
> list created especially for the purpose, and did not.
>
> As for Fish's flame, which by now has gained a degree of notoriety: I
was
> and am uncomfortable with the language he used, but I can certainly
> understand why he felt pushed to that extreme. It is still in the
Yahoo!
> Groups hercules-390 list archives because I have not received a
request to
> remove it; if that request were to come, but not from Fish, I haven't
> decided what I'd do about it.
>
> Now, on to the claims of Hercules violating intellectual property
rights of
> IBM...
>
> There are four kinds of intellectual property in the US: trademark,
> copyright, trade secret, and patent. Trademarks are not violated if
used to
> identify the owner's products and acknowledged. Hercules does not
violate
> any of IBM's (or anyone else's) trademarks that I'm aware of, and can
and
> will correct any such violation if advised of it. Copyrights are not
being
> violated because we do not distribute any IBM code that has been
> copyrighted. (The code available from http://www.cbttape.org is all in
the
> public domain.) Trade secrets are only protected as long as they are
> actually secret; reverse engineering by a party not contractually
bound to
> keep the secret destroys that status and removes any such protection.
>
> This leaves only patents. In the US, only a patent attorney is, by
law,
> competent to read patents and render an opinion on whether a patent is
> being
> infringed. I am not a patent attorney. Therefore, I do not and have
not
> read
> any patent which may be claimed to be infringed. It is IBM's
responsibility
> to notify me (or any other Hercules developer; as the host of the web
site
> and release coordinator for the package, as well as the most visible
> developer actually in the United States, I believe I am the logical
> recipient of such notification) of any infringement and demand that
such
> infringement cease. Until that point, I have no responsibility to act
based
> on others' allegations and hearsay. I am easy to find, as my home
address
> and telephone number are posted on my home page.
>
> Until I hear from IBM directly, I refuse to worry about the issue.
>
> Finally, I do note Alan Cox's comments on the advisability of IBM
shutting
> down Hercules, and echo them. I believe that news would spread rapidly
> among
> the Open Source[1] community, and would cause IBM immeasurable damage;
I
> would feel no compulsion to keep anything of that nature secret,
either.
>
> Fortunately, I also believe IBM understands this. Between that, and
their
> public comments to Eric Raymond and Bruce Perens about not enforcing
their
> patents against Open Source developers, I doubt that any of the dire
> predictions about IBM sending a cease and desist notice for Hercules
will
> actually come to pass.
>
> Now that I've gotten all that out of the way...can anyone help me get
Red
> Hat 7.2 running on Hercules? I can't get the installer to actually
install.
> :-)
