With the IFL maxed I usualy see 4%-6%(really high) utilization. -----Original Message----- From: David Kreuter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 2:18 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Business Week Article
Many good points raised by all. Lots of benchmarks fail because customers are led to comparing non-z workload with "plunk and go" linux vrtual machines. Do this only if you want to make z series look bad. I've seen lots of numbers, and done some benchmarking. Z series typically does not win in a CPU to CPU comparison versus price point. There are other significant wins for z series, many of them mentioned in this thread. As far as I am concerned there is a significant processor cost for linux work on z series. Discuss deployment, networking, personnel resources, TCO, complexiity,even I/O - but CPU? - thin ice. I have rarely seen CP overhead be an issue. I find the 10% for CP overhead way high - maybe 3% - 5%. David Joseph Temple wrote: >Part of the difference is the comparison of the HP to the Intel Box. >If you take the z900 uniprocessor IFL to be 256 MIPS my first guess for >the HP 440 MHz 2way would have been 290 MIPS, but for the PIII 700 MHz >I would have come up with 83.5 MIPS. I do these comparisons by using >extrapolation data we purchase from Ideas International or using >Internal IBM extrapolations (they yield similar results but cover >different machines), and then apply a middle of the road conversion factor and a 70% utlization >factor. Any way the 290 MIPS would chew up an "IFL and then some". I >can't share the conversion factors with you because of agreements IBM has >with benchmark councils and with Ideas. In any case I think your >estimator is over valuing the PIII 700 MHz engine. > > >Joe Temple >Executive Architect >Sr. Certified IT Specialist >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >845-435-6301 295/6301 cell 914-706-5211 >Home office 845-338-1448 Home 845-338-8794 > > > > "Little, Chris" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > hs.org> To > Sent by: Linux on [email protected] > 390 Port cc > <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > IST.EDU> Subject > Re: Business Week Article > > 06/30/2005 01:23 > PM > > > Please respond to > Linux on 390 Port > > > > > > >I would guess that the SQL is not very optimized. Also, the app pushes >a lot of math that could be done client side to the database. > >700 may be a somewhat low, but the HPUX server had two 440mhz PA-RISC >8?00 cpu's. When we moved it, it ate all of one IFL, plus a bit. It's >bloated since then and has been chewing on a good portion of both recently. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Rich Smrcina [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 12:15 PM >To: [email protected] >Subject: Re: Business Week Article > >700Mhz? That seems pretty low. > >Little, Chris wrote: > > >>Were those Solaris/AIX servers underutilized? By a lot? >> >>Certainly workloads don't compare across platforms. I agree with >>that, but for database workloads I was told (informally) to assume a >>single z/900 IFL at a Pentium III 700mhz. Within reason, it seems >>correct. We are probably getting better than that, but certainly >>nowhere >> >> >near what you are seeing. > > >>Low CPU/high IO (webserving, maybe?) might translate better to linux >>on zseries, I don't know. >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Uriel Carrasquilla [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 12:12 PM >>To: [email protected] >>Subject: Re: Business Week Article >> >>Crhis: >>I suspect not all workloads are the same. What we are finding out is >>that loads are taking place much faster. That was a large pecentage >>of our usage before. We don't have any users signed on and we only >>run the zLinux image to service requests. It works for us and no one >>is >> >> >complaining. > > >>Regards, >> >>[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>NCCI >>Boca Raton, Florida >>561.893.2415 >>greetings / avec mes meilleures salutations / Cordialmente mit >>freundlichen Gr|_en / Med vdnlig hdlsning >> >> >> >> >> "Little, Chris" >> >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: >>[email protected] >> hs.org> cc: >> >> Sent by: Linux on Subject: Re: Business >> >> >Week > > >>Article >> 390 Port >> >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> IST.EDU> >> >> >> >> >> >> 06/30/2005 11:48 >> >> AM >> >> Please respond to >> >> Linux on 390 Port >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>Are you getting that much performance out of an IFL? Four times the >>performance of a single RISC unix server? >> >>I say that because the Oracle database we moved from an HP server with >>2 PA-RISC 8600 (440mhz) cpus consumed a little more than one >>IFL(100%-120% on a two IFL LPAR). >> >>This was about in line with what IBM recommended. >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Uriel Carrasquilla [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 10:15 AM >>To: [email protected] >>Subject: Re: Business Week Article >> >>John: >>The formula we use is 4xCPU (sun 1.2 GHz or aix 1.0 GHz) is the same >>as one IFL under z890 running zLinux under LPAR. >>If zVM, we take away 10% power for the zVM overhead. >>This is a rough estimate and gets refined upon the real circumstances. >>Products licensing based on number of CPU's get penalized but we spend >>more for the H/W (IBM is happy). >>There are other benefits that are more important, such as saving in >>head counts that I rather not get into but you can figure it out. >> >>Regards, >> >>[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>NCCI >>Boca Raton, Florida >>561.893.2415 >>greetings / avec mes meilleures salutations / Cordialmente mit >>freundlichen Gr|_en / Med vdnlig hdlsning >> >> >> >> >> "McKown, John" >> >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: >>[email protected] >> insctr.com> cc: >> >> Sent by: Linux on Subject: Re: Business >> >> >Week > > >>Article >> 390 Port >> >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> IST.EDU> >> >> >> >> >> >> 06/30/2005 09:35 >> >> AM >> >> Please respond to >> >> Linux on 390 Port >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of >>>Pieter Harder >>>Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 8:18 AM >>>To: [email protected] >>>Subject: Re: Business Week Article >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Run Oracle on the z/890 as a "super server", (We just eliminated >>>>z/VM and Linux on the zSeries because nobody knew what to do with >>>>them >>>> >>>> >>>John, >>> >>>Just curious, on what are they planning to run Oracle then? >>>zOS? You guys mus have gobs of money.... >>> >>>Best regards, >>>Pieter Harder >>> >>> >>We don't have "gobs of money". That scenario is what is being touted >>by certain managers. Personally, I don't buy it, but what do I know? >>They say that Oracle is licensed by the number of processors in the >>box. And that a license for z/OS on two processors (regardless of >>which processor it is - z800, z890, z990, all the same cost) costs the >>same as a license for Windows running on two processors. This seems >>silly >> >> >to me, but I cannot refute it. > > >>Also, at one time, we did test Oracle on Linux under z/VM (back when >>we had those products). The Oracle DBAs (who ran the test themselves) >>came to the conclusion that a z800 single IFL and 1 Gb of memory did >>not perform as well as a 10Gb Sun system with 10 processors. Well, duh! >> >>-- >>John McKown >>Senior Systems Programmer >>UICI Insurance Center >>Information Technology >> >>This message (including any attachments) contains confidential >>information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and its' >>content is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, >>you should delete this message and are hereby notified that any >>disclosure, copying, or distribution of this transmission, or taking >>any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. >> >>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send >>email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or >>visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 >> >> >> >> >> >>The information contained in this e-mail message is intended only for >>the personal and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above. >>This message may be an attorney-client communication and/or work >>product and as such is privileged and confidential. If the reader of >>this message is not the intended recipient or an agent responsible for >>delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that >>you have received this document in error and that any review, >>dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly >>prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please >>notify us immediately by e-mail, and delete the original message. >> >> >>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send >>email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or >>visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 >> >>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send >>email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or >>visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 >> >> >> >> >> >>The information contained in this e-mail message is intended only for >>the personal and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above. >>This message may be an attorney-client communication and/or work >>product and as such is privileged and confidential. If the reader of >>this message is not the intended recipient or an agent responsible for >>delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that >>you have received this document in error and that any review, >>dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly >>prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please >>notify us immediately by e-mail, and delete the original message. >> >> >>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send >>email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or >>visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 >> >>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send >>email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or >>visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 >> >> >> > >-- >Rich Smrcina >VM Assist, Inc. >Main: (262)392-2026 >Cell: (414)491-6001 >Ans Service: (360)715-2467 >rich.smrcina at vmassist.com > >Catch the WAVV! http://www.wavv.org >WAVV 2006 - Chattanooga, TN - April 7-11, 2006 > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send >email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or >visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send >email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or >visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send >email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or >visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
