>>> On Fri, Nov 30, 2007 at 8:18 PM, in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Ivan Warren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Mark Post wrote: >> Yes, they're now trying to push Ubuntu in the server market. I have no idea > just how minuscule their "market share" is in that regard, but I imagine it's > pretty small. Most people who really want a F/LOSS server have gone with > Debian. Those who are more pragmatic use SLES or RHEL. Until someone in the > Ubuntu community feels strongly enough to put the time and effort in (and I > know all too well, that is a *lot* of time and effort), there won't be a > version for the mainframe. >> >> If there *is* someone out there, reading this, that feels that strongly, > there are a couple of options open to you for doing the build on real
> mainframe hardware. It doesn't have to be all cross-compiles, or Hercules. >> >> > My understanding here is that there are more than just what you are > stating (if you allow me to be as daring to come forth with such a bold > statement :P).. I think "minuscule" in terms of server deployments in general is correct, but if you have pointers to references, I'm more than happy to take a look so I can be correct in the future. > First debian is utterly lacking a full s390x (read z/Arch) userland.. > Well.. They have the necessary tools to build s390x binaries, but no > such thing as a full s390x distro.. I believe that simply comes from a > lack of interest and manpower to do that.. I wouldn't say "lack of interest." The manpower is more of an issue. I know "they" just as I with Slack/390, have been working on a 64-bit version for some time. One thing people need to keep in mind is that if you don't really need a 64-bit, the 31-bit versions run just fine on System z hardware. > Second (and this addresses all distros != SLES|RHEL) is the lack of ISV > support for those (and this is not a s390/s390x thing.. it's cross > platform)... Absolutely. It's really too costly for an ISV to certify their software on something that isn't going to be running on a _lot_ of systems, and keep it reasonably affordable. It's one of the things that I wish were different, but it is reality. > Of course, this is not really a 'linux' issue per-se (more > a glibc & consort problem). But basically what is putting off a lot of > people from going for, say, a full debian system is that it's close to > impossible to run some of the midleware that most applications now need. I haven't heard that before. Do you mean the software doesn't work, or it is just not certified and supported by the ISV? > The ubuntu folks (read Canonical) do provide (if you read the PR) > professional grade support (never tried it though).. The only big diff > here is that ubuntu is supposedly providing the exact and same distro > out in the wild to the general public than the per-for-support one (in > contrast to novell/redhat which have 2 different deliverables) .. >Of > course, "public" distros make little sense for s390x (considering the > number of people that have a z9 in their living room) so since ubuntu > seems to be heavily relying on public support for its internal support, > then it's not just a matter of compiling/porting the thing. As the maintainer/developer of Slack/390, I would of course disagree to some extent. I may not have a _lot_ of users, but I do have some, and a number of those are using it for production. > Now.. compiling an entire GNU/Linux system on hercules.. boy ! you > really need to have time on your hand (or a truckload of CPU > horsepower). Because otherwise, we're talking weeks ! Umm, it takes more than "weeks" on real mainframe hardware. And, as I said, for anyone that is really serious about doing the work needed to put out another distribution, Hercules is not the only choice available. If it were, I would probably still be working on compiling Slackware 8.something. > Anyway.. that was just my €.02 (I doubt my Euro sign will get through.. > So that "?" is actually a euro sign for those wondering) Actually, it did, at least for me. Mark Post ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
