On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 5:44 AM, John Summerfield < [email protected]> wrote:
> Okay, here is what I think. > > Count the cost. > Do you get a full, working system? If not, there are extra costs for the > bits that are missing. We're still trying to figure this out, hopefully we'll get a response soon. > > > Depending on the capabilities of your particular machine, you will have > some number of essentially discrete systems (your LPARs). I gather any > hardware reconfiguration you do involves pinching a bit off one machine > to give it to another. Whether it's enough is for you to judge. > > Who is going to do the reconfiguration management? I'm not sure what you mean. As for setting up LPAR's, I expect that at some point during the summer, myself and a few advanced students that are interested would spend as much as a week going through manuals, figuring out how to get everything set up, and actually setting it up. That would cover the software side. As for the hardware, I'm going to have to make sure we have everything we need either when we receive the system or shortly after. > > Does this system have special power requirements? What about > environmentals? We have a room (really a large, climate controlled closed) that houses some servers (not many though), and we expect that we could probably put it in there. We'll have to get some specifications on power draw and heat output and run them past the maintenance department though. > > What will be the cost of transporting the system and doing the initial > installation? We're not entirely sure how this will work at the moment. It would depend on how much care transporting a mainframe requires, which I haven't read about (so far). > > > What have I forgotten? Well, from the one datasheet I managed to find on the IBM website about this machine, the hardware specs a company could buy vary (by today's standards) from useless to excellent. If the company purchased a lower end version, it wouldn't be worth the effort to get it transported and running. > There is a case for a central server to coordinate students' work. I am > not convinced that a mainframe, even a free one, is the best tool for > the job. My contention is that if it's available, I can run linux on it, and it has the capacity for what I need, it's the best tool for the job. As I explained earlier, there are also some educational benefits to having a mainframe rather than another system. The only concern that I don't think I've voiced so far is maintenance. I know it was mentioned that this machine would be close to the end of its lifespan, and when maintenance costs become too high, I would have to find another solution elsewhere. If this machine is already nearing the end of its lifespan, I'll have to decide whether the effort of moving it and setting it up is worth the estimated service life. > > For any programming students might do, it makes not a jot of difference > whether they do it on a PC running Linux or a mainframe running Linux, > the tools are the same. Since you said the students would be connecting > via ssh, I expect they already have PCs. The only Windows ssh client I > have used is putty, and while I will continue to use it, I don't like it > that well. To do the job properly, one needs Linux (or, I expect one of > the BSDs or a real Unix). If installing Linux on the student PCs' > hardware is frowned on, how about Linux inside VirtualBox (my current > favourite) or one of the MS free offerings. What I'm looking at is using our existing Windows lab (the client computers all run Eclipse and a few other IDEs) but storing code (SVN), providing project management software, and allowing for a centralized testing location for server software on a centralized server. I've never had a problem with Putty, and some of the students use it. Connecting can be clumsy, but beyond there, I haven't had any complaints. I like it more than I like the DOS prompt. > This might give the students the same kind of setup so many free > software hackers have, their own PC and a central repository. > > This does not preclude students from using virtual mainframes (hercules) > and checking out Linux on that. > > It seems to me that, if you want the students to learn to appreciate the > benefits of a mainframe, you really need a full set of software too, > including representatives of the VM, OS and DOS families. While there > are free versions (I think I found VM on three 3330 images somewhere, > and I have MVS 3.08 around here someplace), they're pretty archaic. This all comes down to what I can get my hands on. At this point, I don't know what I would wind up having. > > > If all you have is Linux running on the bare metal on a mainframe, > there's little to distinguish it favourably from a PC. > Well, even in it's old age, this machine, if it had higher end specifications at purchase time, looks like it could outperform pretty much all the servers we run right now. Hopefully that's not a false impression I got somewhere. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
