Linux-Advocacy Digest #546, Volume #25 Tue, 7 Mar 00 16:13:09 EST
Contents:
Re: Salary? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Windows 2000 is pretty reliable (5X3)
Re: Drestin: time for you to buy UNIX for DumbAsses ("2 + 2")
Re: Open Software Reliability (Mark S. Bilk)
Re: Salary? (Matthias Warkus)
Re: Bill Gates just cant win (Matthias Warkus)
Re: Salary? (thomas park)
Re: Drestin Black = Village Idiot (Matt Corey)
Re: I can't stand this X anymore! (Donovan Rebbechi)
Re: Salary? (Donovan Rebbechi)
Re: Drestin Black = Village Idiot (Curious G)
Re: New Linux Exclusive Website! (Darren Winsper)
Re: Salary? ("Matt O'Toole")
Re: A little advocacy.. (Donovan Rebbechi)
Re: Salary? (Desmond Coughlan)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.networking,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Salary?
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 19:57:37 GMT
In article <89ung8$jvd$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > 1. Charge what you think you're worth in that job. US$20/hr?
US$40/hr?
> > What? If you feel quite happy getting US$15/hr and then find that
> > you're being undervalued in this position as everyone is earning
more
> > than you, I expect you'd be a little miffed. Am I right? And yet you
> > were quite happy to accept the US$15/hr in the first place. People
are
> > so greedy.
>
> It's not so much a question of greed; merely fairness. I've been in
> the position before where I got hired on at a wage, then discovered
> a few months down the road that someone that does an inferior job
> (by my estimation and management's appraisals) was hired on at - and
> was continuing to make - significantly more than what I was making.
> So no, not greed exactly. I just don't want to repeat that sort of
> rude slap in the face through naivety.
>
> > Having said that I'd guess that as you've left school and it's an
> > admin job I'd go for about GB�20K which would be about US$30K which
> > works out at about ....oh dear, US$10.27/hr. Perhaps I have my sums
> > wrong.
>
> Doing some quick math, that works out to around $14.50/hr assuming
> $30,000 gross annual income, 40 hours a week. I was thinking low- to
> mid-thirties, but if sysadmins are routinely making $45k+ I'd feel
> like I low-balled myself (doing the same work for less pay). Hence
> my inquiry.
Last time anyone published any figures in Atlanta, the going rates for a
sysadmin were:
Salary Considered
58,000 Low
72,000 Medium
80,000 High (don't recall the exact high end fig)
Now that's a little distorted by the local run on Solaris admins. Good
Sun admins command a premium in the local market.
Considering the difference in cost of living between Southern California
and Atlanta, asking for 60k seems very reasonable. You *have* 4 years
experience, which is a fair amount of it. Ask for your rate.
David.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (5X3)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windows 2000 is pretty reliable
Date: 7 Mar 2000 20:10:36 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy Drestin Black <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "5X3" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:8a3hae$2pgq$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Drestin Black <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>>
>>
>> > guess you are right, HP and Unisys only offer a 99.99% uptime with W2K -
> I
>> > guess we need to go a little further for that last 9, the five 9s.
>>
>> HP Offers more than that, in writing with HP/UX...
>>
>> Just thought id throw that out there...:)
> better than five nines? I didn't think anyone does? HP/UX offers higher than
> five nines?
Sorry, I meant to bind that statement to the first part of yours, saying that
HP/UX does 5 9s, but does not (officially) exceed it.
p0ok
------------------------------
From: "2 + 2" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Drestin: time for you to buy UNIX for DumbAsses
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 15:11:41 -0500
Drestin Black wrote in message <8a2oe9$12i$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>"[Linux] is not a robust enough platform."
>
>"there's no danger of Linux undermining Microsoft's dominance in the
desktop
>operating system market"
>
>yawn...
>
>and from the same source, one of your own finally admits the truth:
>
>http://cnn.com/2000/TECH/computing/03/02/no.linux.desktop.idg/index.html
>
>"mr_rupert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>>
>>
>> Eventually, Microsoft is going to get tired of re-inventing the
>> UNIX wheel as if it were new and just come aboard the UNIX camp.
>>
>> This will be a sad day for us all.
>>
>> http://cnn.com/2000/TECH/computing/03/06/ms.linux.idg/index.html
>>
>>
>> --
>> The lovely, the talented, and the quite dapper,
What's a dapper?
Is that a place where bats hang out?
2 + 2
>>
>> Mr Rupert
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mark S. Bilk)
Subject: Re: Open Software Reliability
Date: 7 Mar 2000 20:17:26 GMT
In article <8a2uvc$23mf$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Frank Mayer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I wonder if someone could help me understand a claim that the development
>paradigm for open source software in general (and for Linux in particular)
>yields higher reliability, maintainability and stability.
>
>I understand that open source software is developed by a large decentralised
>group as a labour of love. It is hard to imagine that the developers would
>voluntairly submit themselves to the irksome quality requirements of, for
>instance, software generated using ISO-9000 standards.
>
>On the other hand, I imagine (?) that when a central authority pays for an
>operation system (or other) development, they can institute and enforce
>demanding quality standards. So I would expect that the code generated under
>the centrally controlled paradigm to be more easily maintainable.
>
>The Linux community claims that this is not so.
>
>Am I missing something?
Maybe it's the other things that the central authority
(if it's a corporation) can institute and enforce:
o Ridiculous new "features" that the marketing department
insists on cramming into the software every year or two,
to make it appear to be better than the competition and
thus convince the customers that they have to buy each
new version. This results in an exponential increase
in complexity and bugs.
o Total secrecy, which keeps good programmers outside the
project from looking at the code and spotting problems.
o Deadlines by which the software has to be "out the door"
whether it's been adequately tested and debugged or not.
o SQA people getting reprimanded and even fired for finding
more problems, because it makes the engineering department
look bad.
o Design and development methodologies enforced from on
high, sometimes by people who've never written a line of
code in their life. The programmers are not permitted
to criticize, let alone disobey, if they want to keep
their jobs. (Use a CASE tool to help you understand this
20 megabytes of source code? No you can't; nobody else
does. Here, watch this videotape of someone explaining
the internals of the software as it was three years ago.
Sorry the sound is inaudible and the diagrams are out
of focus, and you'd need to know how the previous gener-
ation of the program worked for it to mean anything.)
o Adherence to artificial standards that require so much
extra useless work that there isn't enough time (or
pleasure in the work) to design, code, test, and debug
properly.
Authoritarian, top-down governed organization of a project
has huge disadvantages. It's just not the best way for
people to work successfully.
--
Bitter? No, I'm not bitter. What gave you that idea?
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Warkus)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.networking,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Salary?
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 20:45:14 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It was the 7 Mar 2000 17:55:57 GMT...
...and Michael C. Vergallen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Eric LEMAITRE wrote:
>
> >When do you flee from Belgium for USA :-)) ?
> I'm allready looking into this ... My estimated time is in 2 - 3 years.
> I'm currently doing a degree, so as soon as I get this done I'll be
> considering this as an option.
How sad...
mawa
--
keywool, n.:
Fluffy stuff that can be found looking through the slits between a
long-haired hacker's keyboard caps.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Warkus)
Subject: Re: Bill Gates just cant win
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 20:49:31 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It was the 7 Mar 2000 17:59:06 GMT...
...and Brian Langenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> : I like the rolling stones song used to advertise '95. It got cut off just
> : before the line "make a grown man cry."
>
> Another enjoyable line is the song "Getting Better" used in the
> Magnavox(?) commercials.
Philips B.V.?
mawa
--
Chefbegr��er!
Chlorbrillentr�ger!
Coverbandschlagzeuger!
Cookies-Deaktivierer!
------------------------------
From: thomas park <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.networking,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Salary?
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 15:18:53 -0500
Those figures sound a little high to me - in the New England area, a
typical sysadmin with 4 years experience would probably gross $40 - 50K
(USD). And the cost of living here is, as I understand it, higher than
in the south (I don't know about Atlanta).
There's a site, http://www.computerjobs.com that lists job openings - I
believe they also have salary surveys that seem reasonable and are
localized for several parts of the US.
thomas
> Last time anyone published any figures in Atlanta, the going rates for a
> sysadmin were:
>
> Salary Considered
> 58,000 Low
> 72,000 Medium
> 80,000 High (don't recall the exact high end fig)
>
> Now that's a little distorted by the local run on Solaris admins. Good
> Sun admins command a premium in the local market.
>
> Considering the difference in cost of living between Southern California
> and Atlanta, asking for 60k seems very reasonable. You *have* 4 years
> experience, which is a fair amount of it. Ask for your rate.
>
> David.
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: Matt Corey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux
Subject: Re: Drestin Black = Village Idiot
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 20:21:16 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Bobby D. Bryant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> CW wrote:
>
> > Drestin Black = Village Idiot
> >
> > Can't see the future, can you ???
> >
> > LAY off the bottle and get off of your sister...
>
> And dress in another color now and then.
>
> Bobby Bryant
> Austin, Texas
>
Let's see:
Drestin White: Reminds me of seeing the neighborhood slut in a
wedding dress.
Drestin Brown: At least it implies what he's full of.
Drestin Mauve: I like it!
Drestin Pink: Look out Dennis Rodman!
Drestin Red: The communist version.
Drestin Yellow: Give him a wide brimmed yellow hat to go with it and
he can escort a very curious monkey around. (I think I just dated
myself)
Drestin Orange: Perfect for the deer hunt. We'd know where to aim.
Drestin Blue: With matching hex dump!
Drestin Green: Uptime Envy.
Drestin Purple: I love you! You Love me! I will Only run NT!
Drestin Beige: Drestin White after the honeymoon. (and the best man,
the groom's dad, the priest, the cheauffer(sp?)...)
Drestin Nothing: The emperor has no clothes.
Drestin backseat: What you have to do quickly after getting unDrestin
backseat and the cop shows up.
Drestin loincloth: Come Cheetah! Bill in trouble!
Drestin bodycast: You don't have an itch do you?
Drestin barrel: Only after MSFT tanks.
Drestin tux: All drestup and no where to went.
Drestin violet: I think i have taken this joke as far as it needs to
go. Ok, maybe way too far.
Matt
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.linux.development.apps
Subject: Re: I can't stand this X anymore!
Date: 7 Mar 2000 20:37:37 GMT
On 7 Mar 2000 18:47:15 GMT, David T. Blake wrote:
>xfstt is available for all non-RedHat X systems as a drop in
>replacement for the X font server. There is lots on it on
>the web, including several web sites.
Are you sure you don't mean xfsft ? xfstt is only truetype AFAIK.
>type support for many applications. Of cource, Apple is now
>preparing to halt all TrueType font use in linux due to
>the patents they hold on TrueType fonts.
References ? AFAIK, the patents exist, but no threats have been made.
I don't see why Apple would be out to get Linux, especially given
that they were actively supporting MkLinux some time back.
>Metafonts from TeX are actually better in theory
... and in practice. Computer Modern blows anything available in TrueType
out of the water.
>It will come around. If Apple were to licence TrueType patents to
>XFree86 than it would come around a lot faster.
It already has come around. xfsft which is essentially xfs patched to
use freetype is in the 3.9x releases of XFree.
--
Donovan
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.networking,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Salary?
Date: 7 Mar 2000 20:40:09 GMT
On 7 Mar 2000 18:34:44 GMT, Joseph T. Adams wrote:
>Is it reasonably safe?
Jersey City is quite safe. Not sure about Manhattan, but my impression
is that it's OK ( though it's true that a lot of people get robbed there )
--
Donovan
------------------------------
From: Curious G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux
Subject: Re: Drestin Black = Village Idiot
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 20:43:14 GMT
Matt Corey wrote:
>
>
> Drestin Yellow: Give him a wide brimmed yellow hat to go with it and
> he can escort a very curious monkey around. (I think I just dated
> myself)
>
If that's true, them I'm in serious trouble.
--
CuriousG ------------------
---------- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://host13.ltsc.ucsb.edu
E Pluribus Unix
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Darren Winsper)
Subject: Re: New Linux Exclusive Website!
Date: 8 Mar 2000 04:51:53 GMT
On Tue, 07 Mar 2000 01:45:52 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
To everyone else: please excuse the excessive use of bad language here,
but this guy has gone too far this time.
> Gay sex is a highly deviant form of behavior. It is sick and
> disgusting. The fags try and hide behind a "we love all" sugar coated
> attitude. Take a long careful look into the world of a typical homo
> and see what you dig up.....
You're a fucking moron. No, I take that back, you're a fucking
insulting moron. A good friend of mine happens to be gay. I don't
really care if he is or he isn't, but it sickens me the way fuckwits
who think like you make it their duty to piss him off.
> Sites like cruisingforsex are the tip of the iceberg.
> how about the fag production assistant on the Sally Jessi Rapheal show
> that was filiming scat videos after hours. Another faggot gone
> amok....
For every 'faggot' that has 'gone amok', I can show at least 10
straight people that have done far more harm.
> Sorry, but gay sex is sick,
Your attitude is sick.
> not normal and all the sugar coating in
> the world won't change that.
Then don't think about it, you're not some fucking "big brother" who
can claim some form of moral high ground here. You just sound like
some religious nut who's stuck in the 18th century.
> Despite the faggot inflated numbers, the number of adults supporting
> gay rights is infinitesimal.
I demand statistics which prove your bullshit claims.
> And rightfully so.
Fuck you.
> It is a sickness that God is dealing with via AIDS.
And now he want's to bring a being which hasn't even been shown to
exist in! This is great!
--
Darren Winsper (El Capitano) - ICQ #8899775
Stellar Legacy project member - http://www.stellarlegacy.tsx.org
DVD boycotts. Are you doing your part?
"Microsoft is estimating that 28,000 of these [bugs] are likely to be 'real'
problems [in Windows2000]."
-http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2436920,00.html?chkpt=zdhpnews01
------------------------------
Reply-To: "Matt O'Toole" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Matt O'Toole" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.networking,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Salary?
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 12:35:26 -0800
"Matthias Warkus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> So we Europeans can't afford 3 SUVs per household. I reckon that's an
> advantage.
If you happen to like that kind of thing, it's still much better to have the
option, don't you think? You don't have to spend it all. Instead, you can
save and invest it, and retire early, with more. Wouldn't it be great to be
able to say "take this job and shove it," and spend your time writing open
source software instead? ;-)
> Seriously: The standard of living here in Germany is rather higher
> than in the United States. As for salaries, they aren't necessarily
> lower, if they're lower, that's usually compensated by a much lower
> number of workhours per week and per lifetime.
My roommate is German, and this is what he thinks. He's appalled by the
cost of living here, and by how hard people work. (Notice my choice of
words.)
> Also take in account that we've got the state taking care of our
> health, pension etc., that is we don't need to pay private health
> insurances and such from our salary after taxes unless we want to.
That's pretty amazing, that the government gives you a choice. In England,
even the "free" state health care costs more than the most deluxe private
insurance over here, and most British people with money still feel the need
to have private insurance also. In the US, you get great value for your
money if you actually have money, but if you're poor, you're screwed.
Matt O.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
Subject: Re: A little advocacy..
Date: 7 Mar 2000 20:53:13 GMT
On Tue, 07 Mar 2000 18:10:18 GMT, George Richard Russell wrote:
>Can I play many of the available games? No. >
I never argued that you could.
>Wheres the Linux software which helps me to do my taxes? More than xcalc,
>anyway. I am not comfortable with filling out tax forms - the more advice
>and hand holding the better. Use a spreadsheet is not useful advice.
I would use a spreadsheet. YMMV.
>>Updated drivers will be available, I don't see an advantage of having them
>>on one website or another.
>
>In other words, no gaurantee of piece of hardware X ever being supported,
>regardless of popularity.
I want to use good hardware, not necessarily "popular hardware".
BTW, the same is true for NT, which has problems with several "popular"
hardware items.
>>>Will software manufacturers offer me techsupport when I mention I'm using
>>>Linux? No
>>
>>Wrong.
>
>Um, Installing Corel Wordperfect in KDE - we don't support installation. WTF?
That's one instance. You haven't shown that the statement is always true,
or even true in a large number of cases.
Personally, my main source of support has been usenet, and it has been the
best support I have received for anything.
>>Wrong.
>
>Can I edit them without loss of formatting, and in some cases, content? Nup.
>
>StarOffice, WordPerfect make efforts, but are not perfect.
No, you can't edit them without loss of formatting, but then, that's not
what he asked, is it ?
Look, if your main criterion for choosing an operating system is simply
"must run Microsoft software", then I *strongly* advise you to stick to
Windows. However, I'd also put it to you that there are users who have
other priorities. For users whose lives do not revolve around Microsoft,
perhaps Linux is a viable option.
>>I am not sure whether you are ignorant or just lacking in honesty.
>
>Nice doubt casting.
Well he subsequently came clean and admitted that his post was essentially
dishonest. So there is no longer any doubt.
>Well, I know a bit about desktop Linux, and where and why it fails.
YMMV. It doesn't "fail" on my desktop. I can see where usability
improvements could be made, bu that hardly alters the fact that "Drestin"'s
post was pure cr*p, and frankly, I'm surprised to see you bending it
and attemptijng to salvage his arguments ( by restating them in a
reverse-strawman manner ) to make them look half credible.
--
Donovan
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Desmond Coughlan)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.networking,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Salary?
Date: 7 Mar 2000 14:13:46 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Tue, 7 Mar 2000 13:57:12 +0100, Matthias Warkus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > The problem is that in Europe technical people are at the bottom of the
> > totem pole, no matter how good they are. The only place I know of where
> > that doesn't necessarily happen is the US. The result: the US produces
> > the best software in the world, and any good European software is developed
> > by universities, not by private companies.
> <sarcasm>
> I suppose that's why SAP is a university :)
> </sarcasm>
<joke>
He said 'good' [...] software, Matthias ...
</joke>
--
Desmond Coughlan Network Engineer Forum des Images Paris France
***************************************************************************
The views expressed in these articles are my own, and do not necessarily
reflect the views of the Forum des Images.
***************************************************************************
[EMAIL PROTECTED] + 33 (0)1 44.76.62.29 http://www.forumdesimages.net/
------------------------------
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