Linux-Advocacy Digest #356, Volume #26 Wed, 3 May 00 21:13:05 EDT
Contents:
Re: Are we equal? (JEDIDIAH)
Re: Dvorak calls Microsoft on 'innovation' (Mig Mig)
Re: Microsoft Office Linux Edition! ("Mark Weaver")
Re: Is the PC era over? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linux NFS is buggy (Leslie Mikesell)
Re: Linux NFS is buggy (Bart Oldeman)
Re: Dvorak calls Microsoft on 'innovation' (Tim Tyler)
Re: Dvorak calls Microsoft on 'innovation' ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: Are we equal? (abraxas)
Re: Dvorak calls Microsoft on 'innovation' (abraxas)
Re: Is the PC era over? (Andrew Carpenter)
Re: Are we equal? (TNT)
Re: QB 4.5 in Win 2000 ("Bob May")
Re: Computer Terms.....(was "Re: MS caught breaking web sites") ("Nobody")
Re: Clearing things ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Crossposted-To:
alt.conspiracy,alt.conspiracy.area51,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,talk.politics
Subject: Re: Are we equal?
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 22:22:40 GMT
On 3 May 2000 21:45:58 GMT, abraxas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In comp.os.linux.advocacy Bob Hauck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On Wed, 03 May 2000 18:19:22 GMT, JEDIDIAH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>> Calling it a gunboat while perhaps pedantically corrrect
>>> is still rather disingenuous. There are crew served small
>>> arms with more potency then what that Cutter carries.
>
>> I suspect that it is a lot easier to call a 76mm cannon a "peashooter" and
>> deride it's lack of "potency" from your living room on dry land than when
>> it is pointed at your small boat out on the open ocean.
>
>Exactly. Not only never having been to cuba, I suspect jedidiah has also
>never served in the navy nor been in the coast guard.
>
>But im sure hes got some kind of family member who has, so his opinion in the
>matter is entirely valid. :)
This still doesn't alter the fact that your usage of the
term gunboat is pure NewSpeak. Using your skewed logic,
one could also call that ship an aircraft carrier or
amphibious assault ship.
--
|||
/ | \
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
From: Mig Mig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Dvorak calls Microsoft on 'innovation'
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 00:28:08 +0200
Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> Mathias Grimmberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Jen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > > I'm growing weary of this "where is the Microsoft innovation" crap.
> >
> > So, a hard and fast question: Where is the MS innovation?
>
> Have you looked at Microsofts 1,227 Patents? By definition, a patent is an
> innovation is it not?
Nope... But isn't the US Patent Office under heavy criticism for granting
non innovative and sometimes patents to things allready invented.
Come back when some Micros~1 employee has won the Nobel prize while working
for Micros~1
------------------------------
From: "Mark Weaver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Microsoft Office Linux Edition!
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 22:39:46 GMT
Rich C <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:390ef2de@news...
> Mark Weaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:VV%O4.2245$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >
> > > Real Windows code??? DOS-based shit on Linux...that would go over like
a
> > > cement cloud.
> > >
> >
> > The Win32 subsystem has nothing in particular to do with DOS (it exists
on
> > both 9.x and NT). Windows doesn't need DOS to run Win32 applications.
> And
> > there are already Win32 subsystems for Unix using MS licensed code (from
> > Bristol and Mainsoft) and they've been available for years.
>
> The Virtual Machine Manager, the device that allows Windows to
> multitask windows (and DOS) programs is the thing that crashes
> most often on my system. If you don't believe that there is DOS code
> in Win9x, just oepn up the System Information app and see how many
> 16 bit drivers and other chunks of code are loaded.
>
No--I'm not saying there's no DOS code in Win 9.x -- only that DOS code is
not required to run 32-bit Windows apps (as NT/2000 demonstrates--which run
Win32 apps w/o DOS code. Ergo, a Win32 subsystem could be added to Linux
w/o DOS code.
>
> So do I. Nor do I intend to use my Linux machines to run Windows apps.
> Running an emulator of a crappy OS when you have the original crappy
> OS is a worthless endeavor, and was the point of the above statement.
>
> And this endeavor is especially worthless if the source of the crappy
> emulator is Microsoft.
I can assure you that the vast majority of computer users are not such
purists--they want an OS that runs all the software they use to get their
work done--and they drive the market. The ability to run 32-bit Windows
applications fully and reliably under Linux (that is, as reliably as fully
as they run under Windows) would be a major competitve advantage for a
desktop Linux distribution--whether you like it or not. Microsoft (and only
MS) is in a position to produce a complete Win32 subsystem for Linux. That
gives them a lot of potential leverage in the Linux market if they decide to
use it--again, like it or not.
Mark
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Is the PC era over?
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Date: 03 May 2000 22:38:23 GMT
abraxas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: In comp.os.linux.advocacy Andrew Carpenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
:
:> My previous point still stands though. If Sun (or anyone) wants to
:> return to dumb terminals, they'd better do it *really* cheap, not just
:> slightly cheaper than a PC. What is the benefit?
:
: You get to run X11 natively. Thats a pretty big benefit.
No, it isn't. Even a $200 eMachine can "run X11 natively", not to
mention quite efficiently, while still retaining all its local
computational power.
:> A cheap Celeron could run a VNC client, for example, and achieve the
:> same result, while still providing local processing capabilities for
:> applications which might need it. (VNC -
:> http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/index.html)
:
: VNC is ok for remote managment, but horrible for everything else. If I
: want to be able to stream a 2d wireframe rotation on a Sun Ray, I can do
: it with no problems at all. Such a thing isnt possible under VNC.
Agreed. VNC is pcAnywhere...just much, much slower with reduced
functionality. Even the Java version of pcAnywhere is faster.
VNC is a little more portable, but somehow I don't think I'll be
viewing Netscape from my Unix machine on a Palm through VNC except
for possibly the humor value. Somehow, I think I'll be running Unix
on my hand-held w/X Windows long before VNC is really usable on one:
http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/hpcmips/
The only thing I've really liked about VNC is the ability to
"detach" running X sessions and pick them up later, possibly from
another machine entirely, without the session even knowing.
--
-Zenin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) From The Blue Camel we learn:
BSD: A psychoactive drug, popular in the 80s, probably developed at UC
Berkeley or thereabouts. Similar in many ways to the prescription-only
medication called "System V", but infinitely more useful. (Or, at least,
more fun.) The full chemical name is "Berkeley Standard Distribution".
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell)
Subject: Re: Linux NFS is buggy
Date: 3 May 2000 18:09:22 -0500
In article <8eq6q3$2lv0$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
abraxas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> At this stage we are all quite fed up with this pile of crap you
>>>> people seem to think is God's gift to the IT industry.
>>>
>>>You're not implementing it correctly. Linux is a fine workstation OS, and
>>>not very good for most other things.
>
>> Errr, beg your pardon? There's nothing wrong with it as a web
>> server, samba server, email server and so on.
>
>That depends directly on the load on the machine itself. It is a widely
>accepted fact that linux does not handle high network loads as well as
>most other unices.
What does 'high load' mean? Many NIC's? A single NIC'd machine
will ftp at approximately wire speed on 100M ethernet. I do
see it slow down to a crawl on web connections when asymmetric
routing on the internet causes something that looks like a SYN
attack (connection requests come in but my replies aren't getting
back), but under the same conditions a FreeBSD machine used to reboot.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: Bart Oldeman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux NFS is buggy
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 22:50:41 GMT
On Wed, 3 May 2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> And what about the NFS that comes with Windows????? Ha, nothing! HA!
> welcome the the wonderful world of windows. Pay thought the nose to BYE
> the OS then Pay though the nose to connect it to a Unix server! That is,
> Unless you use SAMBA from the Unix side! Hmmm, common onebite WHAT TOOLS
> COME WITH MS SOFTWARE TO CONNECT WITH UNIX OR LINUX????
>
>
> BTH, NFS does all we need mounting Linux to Unix or Unix to Linux.
Um, not really. If you have root on all the boxes involved it's OK, but in
other cases see the NFS-HOWTO:
"
"But the root user on
the client can still use 'su' to become any other user and access and
change that users files!" say you. To which the answer is: Yes, and
that's the way it is, and has to be with Unix and NFS.
"
Considering how easy it is to get root access on a client (physical
access) this is an issue.
nfsv4 is supposed to solve this, but doesn't exist yet.
samba does not preserve permissions and isn't made for unix->unix.
coda is not "standard".
afs is not free.
I'm very happy with Linux, but this thing bothers me.
Bart
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
From: Tim Tyler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Dvorak calls Microsoft on 'innovation'
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 22:53:49 GMT
In comp.lang.java.advocacy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
:> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
:> > Calls to break-up Microsoft are increasing -- not from Microsoft's
:> > competitors, but from [...] columnist Dvorak:
: Dvorak is like a railroad crossing signal, clanging loudly as train
: after train passes him by.
Your posting has got far too many syllables to be a Haiku.
--
__________ Lotus Artificial Life http://alife.co.uk/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
|im |yler The Mandala Centre http://mandala.co.uk/ Goodbye cool world.
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Dvorak calls Microsoft on 'innovation'
Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 18:52:26 -0500
abraxas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8eq81s$2lv0$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Erik Funkenbusch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Mathias Grimmberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> Jen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >> > I'm growing weary of this "where is the Microsoft innovation" crap.
> >>
> >> So, a hard and fast question: Where is the MS innovation?
>
> > Have you looked at Microsofts 1,227 Patents? By definition, a patent is
an
> > innovation is it not?
>
> NO.
>
> Apparantly you dont know too much about the way patents work. Anyone can
> patent anything that is not yet patented, whether they INVENTED it or not.
>
> Very often its a very malicious battle of timing and legal representation.
I'll give you the same challenge I gave Mig Mig. Prove that every one of
microsofts patents are prior art.
In any event, check out the hundreds of research papers at
http://research.microsoft.com
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (abraxas)
Crossposted-To:
alt.conspiracy,alt.conspiracy.area51,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,talk.politics
Subject: Re: Are we equal?
Date: 3 May 2000 23:49:08 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy JEDIDIAH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 3 May 2000 21:45:58 GMT, abraxas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>In comp.os.linux.advocacy Bob Hauck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 03 May 2000 18:19:22 GMT, JEDIDIAH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>>> Calling it a gunboat while perhaps pedantically corrrect
>>>> is still rather disingenuous. There are crew served small
>>>> arms with more potency then what that Cutter carries.
>>
>>> I suspect that it is a lot easier to call a 76mm cannon a "peashooter" and
>>> deride it's lack of "potency" from your living room on dry land than when
>>> it is pointed at your small boat out on the open ocean.
>>
>>Exactly. Not only never having been to cuba, I suspect jedidiah has also
>>never served in the navy nor been in the coast guard.
>>
>>But im sure hes got some kind of family member who has, so his opinion in the
>>matter is entirely valid. :)
> This still doesn't alter the fact that your usage of the
> term gunboat is pure NewSpeak. Using your skewed logic,
> one could also call that ship an aircraft carrier or
> amphibious assault ship.
>
Read the thread again, "gunboat" isnt MY term. :) You actually dont know
what I think they are because I havent told you yet.
=====yttrx
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (abraxas)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Dvorak calls Microsoft on 'innovation'
Date: 3 May 2000 23:50:28 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy Erik Funkenbusch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> abraxas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:8eq81s$2lv0$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Erik Funkenbusch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > Mathias Grimmberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> >> Jen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> >> > I'm growing weary of this "where is the Microsoft innovation" crap.
>> >>
>> >> So, a hard and fast question: Where is the MS innovation?
>>
>> > Have you looked at Microsofts 1,227 Patents? By definition, a patent is
> an
>> > innovation is it not?
>>
>> NO.
>>
>> Apparantly you dont know too much about the way patents work. Anyone can
>> patent anything that is not yet patented, whether they INVENTED it or not.
>>
>> Very often its a very malicious battle of timing and legal representation.
> I'll give you the same challenge I gave Mig Mig. Prove that every one of
> microsofts patents are prior art.
This challenge doesnt make your statement above any less incorrect.
=====yttrx
------------------------------
From: Andrew Carpenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Is the PC era over?
Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 09:30:30 +0930
abraxas wrote:
>
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Andrew Carpenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > My previous point still stands though. If Sun (or anyone) wants to
> > return to dumb terminals, they'd better do it *really* cheap, not just
> > slightly cheaper than a PC. What is the benefit?
>
> You get to run X11 natively. Thats a pretty big benefit.
I can run X11 natively on pretty much anything now.
Does the SunRay actually *run* X11 anyway, or is it just scraping off
the server?
> VNC is ok for remote managment, but horrible for everything else. If I
> want to be able to stream a 2d wireframe rotation on a Sun Ray, I can do
> it with no problems at all. Such a thing isnt possible under VNC.
It may not be practical (I've been told VNC is pretty slow), but why not
possible? So the SunRay can draw a bit faster, and presumably has better
compression algorithms. There's no real fundamental difference though,
is there?
Andrew
[ opinions are my own ]
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Are we equal?
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (TNT)
Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 00:12:14 GMT
On Tue, 02 May 2000 22:27:59 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mlw) wrote in
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>When you think about how the woman kidnapped the son, and left the
>country, should she have been american, she would be considered a
>criminal.
It's actually a good deed to kidnap (it's really a rescue) a child and bring
him away from an oppressive country like Cuba which's often been condemned
for human right records and carrying a US embargo. Should she have been
american, there's no such reason she would have fleed from the country
politically. Even those who are communists often want to become American.
>
>Frankly, sorry, I don't care. I have my worries, I have to watch out for
>my child. I would not want anyone telling me how to raise my child, why
>on earth should I think my government should attempt to tell someone
>else?
Your reasoning is the exact reason why Elian's mother wanted to take him away
from Cuba where people have no right to take care of their own business. The
Communists take care of everything for you - from your body to your soul.
------------------------------
From: "Bob May" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.lang.basic,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: QB 4.5 in Win 2000
Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 17:29:24 -0700
Had a customer which was buying a product that we obsoleted 8 years
ago - a switch card between CGA and a Video source (TARGA 16 card).
Last run of 100 cards was 3 years ago just for him. How do you tell
the customer that you aren't going to make anymore? That was his
business! He now has to rebuild his software (written in some version
of BASIC from the '80s). Where is he going to get a new compiler for
the software conde he has? Visual Basic is so far from what he worked
with that it is silly to contemplate for some. His costs have just
gone up drastically just to keep up with the new hardware and software
that is now mandatory.
The biggest problem that I have is that the files made for much of the
old software can't be opened by the new stuff that is more than 3
generations newer. What a pity.
That's what's wrong with not being able to get the older software.
--
Bob May
Don't subscribe to ACCESS1 for your webserver for the low prices. The
service has
been lousy and has been poor for the last year. Bob May
------------------------------
From: "Nobody" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.linux.networking,comp.os.linux.security,comp.os.ms-windows.networking.tcp-ip
Subject: Re: Computer Terms.....(was "Re: MS caught breaking web sites")
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 10:39:26 +1000
Back many years ago, Motorola like to called their processors MPU,
as contrast to CPU. I think people should stick with MPU rather
than CPU.
MPU - Microprocessor Unit.
David Gillam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Chris Hedley wrote:
> >
> > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > Mike Marion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > > My mom still calls the whole case the CPU, I can't convince her that the
CPU is
> > > just the chip.
> >
> > The term CPU often refers to the enclosure in which the actual processor
> > complex(es) reside; the chip, OTOH, is more properly referred to as a
> > microprocessor or logic array (depending on the system involved.) Many
> > people think otherwise, however, which is what I believe is referred to
> > as "small computer thinking." :)
> >
> > Chris.
>
> Maybe I'm guilty of "small thinking", but.....
---8<--- snipped.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Clearing things
Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 00:45:51 GMT
In article <X7QP4.2929$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Alberto Trillo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I think most us (GNU/Linux users) do not consider a sin making
money
> neither with programs nor with computers, though at least I prefer
open
> source
> code if I can use it. The point we did not like (and won't like if
Microsoft
> finally does not got broken and keeps on its attitude) is companies
making
> dirty play and hiding API's, perverting protocols, and the so, if the
sold a
> lot
> because they are the best, I guess no one could say nothing; it is the
> tricks used
> to seem the best what we dislike. Greetings.
>
You are _so_ right. I could tolerate the crap software if there was
some concept of openness to it; I've tolerated crap software from every
other manufacturer on this planet. I could tolerate hidden APIs if the
stuff worked flawlessly. I could tolerate perverted protocols if they
still somehow interoperated seamlessly with my other systems. But I
especially can't tolerate any company acting as if it is above the law
and continually committing undeniably criminal acts. Microsoft is
morally and ethically bankrupt, and I refuse to put up with their shit.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
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