Linux-Advocacy Digest #604, Volume #26 Fri, 19 May 00 19:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: Why my company will NOT use Linux (JEDIDIAH)
Re: Why only Microsoft should be allowed to create software (Alan Boyd)
Re: Why only Microsoft should be allowed to create software (tinman)
Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux (Leslie Mikesell)
Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux (Leslie Mikesell)
Re: Why only Microsoft should be allowed to create software (abraxas)
Re: Why only Microsoft should be allowed to create software (Alan Boyd)
Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux ("Peter T. Breuer")
Re: The future... (Julius Apweiler)
Re: a great job ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: Why only Microsoft should be allowed to create software ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: Why only Microsoft should be allowed to create software ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: Why only Microsoft should be allowed to create software ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux (brian moore)
Re: a great job (JEDIDIAH)
Re: Tholen digest, volume 2451683.943^-000000000003 (Marty)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Subject: Re: Why my company will NOT use Linux
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 21:15:36 GMT
On Fri, 19 May 2000 17:07:39 -0400, Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Fredrik wrote:
>>
>> THe Solitare Cards DO look nice in Windows!! Unless Linux cancome up
>> with something similar, it will never take of the desktop.. SOlitare,
You mean like "Eric's Ultimate Solitaire"?
>> the ultimate Windows Killer app... *sigh*
>> Well, seriously, X can't proper anti-aliasing yet. Suppose it will get
>> there in the end... But I never really understand why people care so
>> much.. it's not THAT increadible big difference... Hmmm, maybe it's just
>> my monitor that's dodgy and blurry... Hey, built in antialiasing in the
>> monitor! Hardcore!
>
>
>Never had problem running XFree86 on my monitor at 1600x1200.
Ditto.
[deletia]
Although, at 18" of real screen I prefer 1280x1024...
--
In what language does 'open' mean 'execute the evil contents of' |||
a document? --Les Mikesell / | \
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
From: Alan Boyd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why only Microsoft should be allowed to create software
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 16:24:18 -0500
Craig Kelley wrote:
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (abraxas) writes:
>
> > False name? My address is entirely bonafide, and my moniker happens to be
> > a combination of names, which are all mine.
>
> Wasn't "abraxas" that Klingon penal colony-planet from Star Trek 6?
>
> I don't know why I thought of it, but...
No, that was Rura Penthe. Perhaps you're thinking of the moon that
exploded. It was called Praxis.
--
"I don't believe in anti-anything. A man has to have a
program; you have to be *for* something, otherwise you
will never get anywhere." -- Harry S Truman
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (tinman)
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why only Microsoft should be allowed to create software
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 17:28:39 -0400
In article
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Alan
Boyd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Craig Kelley wrote:
> >
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (abraxas) writes:
> >
> > > False name? My address is entirely bonafide, and my moniker happens to be
> > > a combination of names, which are all mine.
> >
> > Wasn't "abraxas" that Klingon penal colony-planet from Star Trek 6?
> >
> > I don't know why I thought of it, but...
>
> No, that was Rura Penthe. Perhaps you're thinking of the moon that
> exploded. It was called Praxis.
http://www.themystica.com/mystica/articles/a/abraxas.html
There's also a movie by that name, as well as a very good Santana album.
--
______
tinman
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux
Date: 19 May 2000 16:22:04 -0500
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
brian moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>You are free to add your own, of course. The above are merely virtual
>packages that include others. For example, task-dns-server:
Hmmm, a packager that understands recursion would be nice.
>As for your list specifically: KDE is not in Debian as it is not
>compatible with the GPL.
So clearly it would not suffice to be limited to Debian pacakges.
>What do you mean by 'server'? Web? Mail?
>Usenet? DNS? SMB? 'server' is mighty generic.
All of the above plus FTP. But that was just the start of the
hundred ways to build a system. For an inside-the-firewall
system it doesn't hurt to have a few extra services. You'd
also want a choice for external mail relay, external ftp
server, etc. with not much else running.
>On the reverse side, there is no "task-web-server" for the simple reason
>that -you- get to choose which web server you want. Do you want Apache?
>Or Roxen? Or CERN perhaps? Or Apache-ssl? How about modules? Do you
>want mod_perl or is it not worth the overhead because your pages are all
>static?
If you know what you want, there never has been a problem in
putting the pieces together. We need something for people
who don't know about all the possibilities - that is, a
way to re-use the work of someone who has built a working
system.
>Some things are best left to humans to decide or there would be no
>choice at all, which is counter to the freedom granted by the FSF,
>Linus, the Apache Group and all the others contributing to the library.
I don't think you understand. I don't want to limit anyone's choice,
just allow them to make all their choices at once by selecting
a copy of something already assembled and tested. I want a tool
that, after you put together your concept of the perfect machine,
would upload a packaging description that would allow anyone
else to duplicate that exact software selection so they only
have to deal with the specific local configuration (IP address,
users, etc.). This would be sort of like going to a car dealer
and picking out something you like, rather than the current
scheme of going to the factory and gathering up a set of parts
to assemble. But, the package system system should be able
to track updates and additions and merge them so that as the
expert maintains his master system and finds new additions that
help with its particular focus all of the people using the
package get the same improvement. The idea would be that anyone
who feels like he has built a system worth sharing could do
it without much additional effort so there would be a lot of
choices already tuned for the usual tasks.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux
Date: 19 May 2000 16:28:24 -0500
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
JEDIDIAH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>See http://www.pathname.com/fhs/
>>
>>Odd that it is a compressed pdf. Does anyone have netscape and
>>acrobat configured to read such a combination directly? Maybe
>>I'll just wait for the next revision.
>
> Sure... just set up one of the pdf readers as a Netscape helper app.
I have that - out of the box RH has that working with acrobat. But
it is not a .pdf, it is a pdf.gz.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (abraxas)
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why only Microsoft should be allowed to create software
Date: 19 May 2000 21:32:27 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy tinman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In article
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Alan
> Boyd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Craig Kelley wrote:
>> >
>> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (abraxas) writes:
>> >
>> > > False name? My address is entirely bonafide, and my moniker happens to be
>> > > a combination of names, which are all mine.
>> >
>> > Wasn't "abraxas" that Klingon penal colony-planet from Star Trek 6?
>> >
>> > I don't know why I thought of it, but...
>>
>> No, that was Rura Penthe. Perhaps you're thinking of the moon that
>> exploded. It was called Praxis.
> http://www.themystica.com/mystica/articles/a/abraxas.html
Though not entirely correct. "abracadabra" is a ruse; the actual word is
similar, but not derived from the word 'abraxas'. They do have similar
independant derivations.
> There's also a movie by that name, as well as a very good Santana album.
And at least one person.
=====yttrx
------------------------------
From: Alan Boyd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why only Microsoft should be allowed to create software
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 16:56:02 -0500
Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>
> > But you claim they don't work closely together.
> > So how is what Craig said "not what he said at all"?
>
> No, I did not claim they don't work closely together.
>
> Why do you people keep claiming I say things I obviously have not said?
After re-reading the thread I see you're right, you didn't say that. I
got that impression from the "floats a concept" statement. To me that's
always meant something like "sends a one or two line high-level
description", but it doesn't have to mean that.
--
"I don't believe in anti-anything. A man has to have a
program; you have to be *for* something, otherwise you
will never get anywhere." -- Harry S Truman
------------------------------
From: "Peter T. Breuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux
Date: 19 May 2000 21:56:28 GMT
In comp.os.linux.misc brian moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: On 19 May 2000 14:54:20 -0500,
: As for your list specifically: KDE is not in Debian as it is not
: compatible with the GPL. What do you mean by 'server'? Web? Mail?
However, spiritually and emotionally speaking, it's a darn sight more in
debian than kde is in RH. There are also fine .deb's of KDE on KDE's site.
Peter
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 22:23:47 +0200
From: Julius Apweiler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The future...
mlw wrote:
>
> Looking over the landscape of the computer industry, here are some
> observations.....
>
> The Server market distinct from the Workstation is gone. Desktop PCs
> will either get smaller in the direction of thin-clients, or be
> indistinguishable from servers.
Yes, I agree. Desktop PCs as such might do both, and there will be many
more thin-client internet devices used just for personal communication
and management (i.e. fusion of mobile phone and palmtop), but I don't
think the desktop PC (i.e. a powerful, complex, bulky, flexible system)
will die, as some predict - it will stay for hard-core gamers (those who
don't want to use consoles), for some professionals (small businesses, I
think), and users who just *like* to have control over the CPU they use
(most of us here...)
Did any of this make any sense?
>
> I think the NOS market is gone. Novel and whom ever is pursuing it is
> wasting their time. All real OS's will just do it right.
>
> Windows is going to die. Not because of MS, exactly, but because the
> world is going towards standards. While UNIX is not a majority player,
> it is a standards based multi-vendor platform. MS will bluster about
> being the "defacto-standard" but more and more IT people are realizing
> that public standards are better than ubiquitous proprietary standards.
Which is already demonstrated by the fact that Win2K is (apparently -
haven't tried) POSIX compliant: Microsoft realised that they can't lead
the market and have to adapt to standards. In that sense, Win2K might
actually survive as Yet Another Unix Clone.
>
> --
> Mohawk Software
> Windows 9x, Windows NT, UNIX, Linux. Applications, drivers, support.
> Visit http://www.mohawksoft.com
> Have you noticed the way people's intelligence capabilities decline
> sharply the minute they start waving guns around?
--
====================
Julius Dominik Apweiler
----
Owner of Julius' Web Site: http://www.geocities.com/jule-apweiler/ ,
----
Inventor of the Creatures Christmas Calendar:
http://www.geocities.com/jule-apweiler/calendar
----
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED]
----
ICQ: 21129422 , no authorization required.
----
Sent from SuSE Linux 6.3
"In a world without walls and fences, who needs Windows and
Gates?"
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: a great job
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 17:36:14 -0500
JEDIDIAH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >The market was tiny compared to today. Today, one in two homes has a
> >computer. Back then, one in 1000 or worse had had computers.
>
> So? That doesn't mean that those machines weren't available
> in every Sears, Kmart and Gold Circle. HELL, these days you
> typically have to find some sort of beautique.
No. Apple computers were only available from authorized apple distributors,
which were typically computer stores (though a couple of "luxury" department
stores became apple distributors later on, such as Dayton-Hudson).
Tandy computers were only available via Radio Shack and mail order.
> >Not "masses who own computers" but the masses in general.
> >
> >hobyists were laymen, but not "masses".
>
> More 'pseudo-elistism' discounting any early adopters as
> not part of 'the masses'. That's pure bullshit.
Rocket scientists are part of "the masses" as well, does that mean Rocket
Science has been brought to them?
Being "part of" something doesn't make the aggregate whole the same thing.
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why only Microsoft should be allowed to create software
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 17:41:01 -0500
Bob Germer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:39257615$1$obot$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> OLE is OLE. You didn't qualify it as to a version. Therefore, you were
> caught in a lie and tried to cover it up. It didn't work.
Microsoft doesn't qualify it either. MS thinks so little of OLE1 that they
simply forget about it's existance. Shortly after OLE2 came out, they
dropped the 2 and simply refer to it as OLE.
> If you make absolute statements using incorrect terms, you are the one at
> fault. Try telling a Judge that when you promised to pay back a loan next
> week, you were thinking in Martian weeks.
I agree that I should have stated otherwise, but it simply didn't occur to
me at the time.
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why only Microsoft should be allowed to create software
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 17:46:05 -0500
Bob Germer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:39257761$2$obot$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Untrue. People read things into what I say that I haven't said. I know
> > exactly what I have written, because I choose my words very carefully in
> > most cases to show specifically what I mean.
>
> People can only read what you write. If you choose some wierd definition
> of standard terms like OLE which no one understands, then you have not
> chosen your words very carefully.
I'm using the exact same definition that MS does. OLE (without any numbers)
means OLE2. This can be noted by looking at "Inside OLE" (which is the
third edition of the book. The second version was called Inside OLE2. Note
how MS dropped the 2 moniker, prefering to act like OLE1 never existed).
> > If I say "Bill gates doesn't say that Office benefits from Windows
> > source code" I am not saying that Office doesn't benefit from Windows.
> > Read more carefully.
>
> One must read statements in context. The context of that quote of yours
> was clearly an impassioned defense of MicroSoft. Therefore, the reader can
> only conclude that you agree with Gates' statement.
One must read what the statement says, not some imagined hidden meaning.
> > > > And if I haven't said it specifically, i've certainly implied that
> > > > Office makes use of new OS features. But 3rd parties can make use
of
> > > > those same features as well.
>
> BTW, I didn't respond to that inanity before. Your claim makes
> pathologists of every ISV other than MS.
>
> A pathologist is a doctor who knows everything and does everything but too
> late. Since the half-life of a version of an application is something like
> 9 months or less, MS has a whole version lead time on the competition if
> MS is not broken up.
For a select few applications. Most applications have a half-life of 2
years or more. Example: Office 98 (shipped mid-summer of 97) , Office 2000
(shipped mid-summer of 99).
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why only Microsoft should be allowed to create software
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 17:49:02 -0500
josco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > OLE2 was introduced in 1992 as part of the OS.
>
> There is no acronym OLE2. OLE 1.0 was updated with OLE 2.0. MS uses
> version numbers. Talk like an adult and use the coreect meaning of words
> - made up words are for childern and it is called baby-talk.
MS no longer uses a version number for OLE. Inside OLE by Kraig
Brockschmidt (MS Press) explains that OLE simply means OLE 2.0 since 1994.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (brian moore)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux
Date: 19 May 2000 22:46:58 GMT
On 19 May 2000 21:56:28 GMT,
Peter T. Breuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In comp.os.linux.misc brian moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> : On 19 May 2000 14:54:20 -0500,
> : As for your list specifically: KDE is not in Debian as it is not
> : compatible with the GPL. What do you mean by 'server'? Web? Mail?
>
> However, spiritually and emotionally speaking, it's a darn sight more in
> debian than kde is in RH. There are also fine .deb's of KDE on KDE's site.
Yep, or at kde.tdyc.com.
--
Brian Moore | Of course vi is God's editor.
Sysadmin, C/Perl Hacker | If He used Emacs, He'd still be waiting
Usenet Vandal | for it to load on the seventh day.
Netscum, Bane of Elves.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Subject: Re: a great job
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 22:57:23 GMT
On Fri, 19 May 2000 17:36:14 -0500, Erik Funkenbusch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>JEDIDIAH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> >The market was tiny compared to today. Today, one in two homes has a
>> >computer. Back then, one in 1000 or worse had had computers.
>>
>> So? That doesn't mean that those machines weren't available
>> in every Sears, Kmart and Gold Circle. HELL, these days you
>> typically have to find some sort of beautique.
>
>No. Apple computers were only available from authorized apple distributors,
Not Apple's, just everyone else's. Although, the requirement
that one be an 'authorized reseller' hardly pushes a particular
product out of the mainstream or away from the 'masses' anyways.
>which were typically computer stores (though a couple of "luxury" department
>stores became apple distributors later on, such as Dayton-Hudson).
>
>Tandy computers were only available via Radio Shack and mail order.
>
>> >Not "masses who own computers" but the masses in general.
>> >
>> >hobyists were laymen, but not "masses".
>>
>> More 'pseudo-elistism' discounting any early adopters as
>> not part of 'the masses'. That's pure bullshit.
>
>Rocket scientists are part of "the masses" as well, does that mean Rocket
>Science has been brought to them?
>
>Being "part of" something doesn't make the aggregate whole the same thing.
That perpetuates the feeble lie that one had to be a rocket
scientist to operate the early consumer computers.
...and as far as 'rocket science' goes: you should see what
some of the rocketry hobbyists are lauching in the Nevada desert...
--
In what language does 'open' mean 'execute the evil contents of' |||
a document? --Les Mikesell / | \
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
From: Marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Tholen digest, volume 2451683.943^-000000000003
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 22:59:21 GMT
Eric Bennett wrote (using a pseudotholen again):
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> > Eric Bennett wrote (using a pseudotholen again):
>
> Evidence, please.
See above.
> > > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Joe Malloy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Today's Tholen digest is full of nothing:
> > >
> > > Are you suggesting that your post does not contain any material?
> >
> > Jumping to erroneous conclusions again, Eric?
>
> Can't you tell?
Certainly, however, whether or not I can tell is irrelevant. Meanwhile, where
is your answer to the question?
> Meanwhile, where is your answer to the question?
How ironic.
> > Taking jumping to erroneous conclusion lessons from Bob Osborn?
>
> Obviously not.
Then from whom are you taking such lessons? Apparently you've completed Bob's
course with spades.
> > > Illogical,
> >
> > Typical unsubstantiated and erroneous claim.
>
> Incorrect.
Yet another unsubstantiated and erroneous claim.
> > > but that is to be expected,
> >
> > According to who, Eric? You?
>
> Typical inappropriate grammar.
How ironic.
> > > coming from you.
> >
> > How ironic, considering that comment came from you.
>
> What is "ironic" about it?
Yet more evidence of your reading comprehension problems. The comment in
question came from you.
> > > On what basis do you claim "this is the end, my only friend, the end"?
> >
> > I see you've taken to ignoring evidence and responses again.
>
> You erroneously presuppose that I have ignored and am ignoring evidence.
Not at all, Eric.
> On what basis do you claim "this is the end, my only friend, the end"?
Still singing that old song? Originality makes a cameo appearance.
------------------------------
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