Linux-Advocacy Digest #613, Volume #27 Wed, 12 Jul 00 09:13:07 EDT
Contents:
Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome! (Sam Holden)
NYC LOCAL: Wednesday 12 July 2000 Meeting of GNU/Linux/FreeOS Beginners Group
([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Just curious, how do I do this in Windows? (Sitaram Chamarty)
Re: SPECweb99 results (Bob Tennent)
Re: To Pete Goodwin: How Linux saved my lunch today! (Gary Hallock)
Re: Why use Linux? ("1$worth")
Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome! (John S. Dyson)
Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome! (John S. Dyson)
Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome! (Lee Hollaar)
Re: Tinman digest, volume 2451736 ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Tinman digest, volume 2451738 ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Tinman digest, volume 2451738 (tinman)
Re: Why use Linux? (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Why use Linux? (Pete Goodwin)
Re: To Pete Goodwin: How Linux saved my lunch today! (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Windows98 (Paul Colclough)
Re: Windows98 (Paul Colclough)
Re: I had a reality check today :( (Matthias Warkus)
Re: Growing dependence on Java (Matthias Warkus)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Sam Holden)
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome!
Date: 12 Jul 2000 09:05:50 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On 12 Jul 2000 08:18:14 GMT, Jay Maynard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On Wed, 12 Jul 2000 02:35:11 -0400, T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>But what is the point of preventing derivative works?
>>Promoting innovation! Come up with your own works!
>
>This is exactly the argument advanced by those who favor softwar patents.
>Don't like having to pay someone patent royalties? Come up with your own
>way to do it!
>
>I find it curious that those who oppose the idea in one context support it
>in another.
Copyright covers one implementation. You could create character for character
identical code, and if you could prove that it was written without ever
having seen the original (clean room style) then copyright allows that. If
you believe my students this kind of thing happens all the time ;).
A patent on the other hand covers the entire 'process', even if you use
a clean room style implementation it will still infringe the patent.
There is a large difference between the two. I'm sure most people who
support copyright law also support patent law - just not the granting
of patents for trivial things like exercising cats with laser pointers and
one-click shopping.
But that is an entirely different thread that was just a few doors down the
hall I believe.
>
>>Pity someone try to promote something besides exorbitant profits;
>
>Your leftist cant about "exorbitant profits" is tiresome, and I find it hard
>to read past your continual assumption that profits are evil. In our
>society, that's just plain wrong. If you can't profit from a thing, then you
>don't own it.
I can't profit from me liver (not legally in this country anyway). I think I
own it.
--
Sam
testing? What's that? If it compiles, it is good, if it boots up it is
perfect.
--Linus Torvalds
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc
Subject: NYC LOCAL: Wednesday 12 July 2000 Meeting of GNU/Linux/FreeOS Beginners Group
Date: 12 Jul 2000 05:25:02 -0400
This Wednesday, July 12, 2000 we are pleased to announce that once
more, by popular demand, we will have a meeting dealing with Free OS
security and privacy. David Solomonoff will speak on "Battling Web
Bugs & Tainted Cookies" (Part 3 of Securing Linux or BSD novice users'
home/personal computers against both hackers and intrusive
commercial/marketing entities). As usual, no assumption is made that
you have attended previous sessions.
And, as always, it is free and open to the public. The meeting starts at
6:30 with general questions and answers.
The schedule is listed below but, as usual, the most up-to-date
information can be found at our current website at
http://www.eskimo.com/~lo/linux.
If you are planning to attend it would be helpful if you would follow
the attendance-counting link for this talk either here or from the
website under the announcement of the meeting. This is to help us
estimate the number of attendees to expect, so please only follow the
link once for each person planning to attend.
Wednesday, July 12, 2000
6:30 Q&A
7:00 David Solomonoff
Battling Web Bugs & Tainted Cookies
(Part 3: Securing Linux or BSD novice users' home/personal computers
against both hackers and intrusive commercial/marketing entities).
at CALC/Canterbury, 780 Third Ave., Room C-1, New York, NY
If you know of any sources willing to donate us additional space, good
speakers for future meetings, topics you want covered, or have
suggestions for our new web page (currently under development) please
contact us.
We are grateful to CALC/Canterbury for the space they are providing us
for our regular meetings the second Wednesday of each month.
-Lyn
-GNU/Linux/FreeOS Beginners
Slightly edited and fully distributed poC TINC:
Jay Sulzberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Corresponding Secretary LXNY
LXNY is New York's Free Computing Organization.
http://www.lxny.org
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Sitaram Chamarty)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Just curious, how do I do this in Windows?
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 10:37:49 GMT
On 9 Jul 2000 22:20:36 GMT, Rob S. Wolfram <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Here's the case. I have a dialup account with bSMTP (cable is no option,
>I'm anxiously awaiting DSL in my town). I will be on a vacation[1] RSN
>and I still want to be able to read my mail during my absence. So what I
>did was add couple of rules to my .procmailrc that will pipe my mail
>through a perl script. This script will verify that the mail has been
>PGP-signed by me, and if so it will parse the times that the PPP
>connection should be brought up and down so I can ssh into the system.
>Everything happens on Linux, of course.
Too complex :-) Use xringd and set up a pattern that triggers
(after a delay to let xringd reset itself) a ppp-on. This is what
I do. I then ssh in from outside.
As for the dynamic IP, there is more than one way to skin that cat
:-)
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Tennent)
Subject: Re: SPECweb99 results
Date: 12 Jul 2000 10:41:05 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Wed, 12 Jul 2000 02:12:25 GMT, Christopher Browne wrote:
>It seems to use "TUX", the "in-kernel web server."
>
>To use it, it appears that you have to integrate part of the web app
>into the Linux kernel.
>
>I'm not sure how generally usable that will be; it may [not clear
>yet] require a _tight_ integration of the application with the kernel,
>and I suspect you'll not be using SSL with those connections.
>
>That "negative" spin being said, the scenario may be sufficiently usable
>for some realistic situations as to prove somewhat useful. But I don't
>think it's going to be as flexible as using Apache...
Here's a Slashdot post from Ingo Molnar ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) about TUX:
'TUX' comes from 'Threaded linUX webserver', and is a kernel-space HTTP
subsystem. TUX was written by Red Hat and is based on the 2.4 kernel
series. TUX is under the GPL and will be released in a couple of weeks.
TUX's main goal is to enable high-performance webserving on Linux,
and while it's not as feature-full as Apache, TUX is a 'full fledged'
HTTP/1.1 webserver supporting HTTP/1.1 persistent (keepalive) connections,
pipelining, CGI execution, logging, virtual hosting, various forms of
modules, and many other webserver features. TUX modules can be user-space
or kernel-space.
The SPECweb99 test was done with a user-space module, the source code can
be found here:
http://www.spec.org/osg/web99/results/api-src/Dell-20000626.tar.gz
We expect TUX to be integrated into Apache 2.0 or 3.0, as TUX's user-space
kernel-space API is capable of supporting a mixed Apache/TUX webspace.
TUX uses a 'object cache' which is much more than a simple 'static
cache'. TUX objects can be freely embedded in other web replies, and can
be used by modules, including CGIs. You can 'mix' dynamically generated
and static content freely.
While written by Red Hat, TUX relies on many scalability advances in the
2.4 kernel done also by kernel hackers from SuSE, Mandrake and the Linux
Community as a whole. TUX is not one single piece of technology, rather
a final product that 'connects the dots' and proves the scalability of
Linux's high end features. I'd especially like to highlight the role of
extreme TCP/IP networking scalability in 2.4, which was a many months
effort lead by David Miller and Alexey Kuznetsov. We'd also like to
acknowledge the pioneering role of khttpd - while TUX is independent of
khttpd, it was an important experiment we learned alot from.
Other 2.4 kernel advances TUX uses are: async networking and disk IO,
wake-one scheduling, interrupt binding, process affinity (not yet merged
patch), per-CPU allocation pools (not yet merged patch), big file support
(the TUX logfile can get bigger than 5GB during SPECweb99 runs), highmem
support, various VFS enhancements (thanks Al Viro), the new IO-scheduler
done by SuSE folks, buffer/pagecache scalability and many many other
Linux features.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 06:54:15 -0400
From: Gary Hallock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: To Pete Goodwin: How Linux saved my lunch today!
Pete Goodwin wrote:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> "Colin R. Day" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > So which version of Windows has eight desktops out of the box?
> > In KDE, just set the number of desktops to 8 in kwmrc.
>
> Two nearly there desktops and six minimalist desktops?
>
No, 8 desktops within KDE, selectable at the click of a button.
Multiple desktops seems to be a concept Windows users have a hard
time grasping.
It is something I could not live without and is one reason why
Windows lags behind Linux.
Gary
------------------------------
From: "1$worth" <"1$worth"@costreduction.plseremove.screaming.net>
Subject: Re: Why use Linux?
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 00:16:10 +0100
TNT wrote:
>
> On Wed, 12 Jul 2000 06:56:04 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Pete Goodwin) wrote
> in <8kh4q0$vf5$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> >So it was running Windows 98 before Windows 98 SE. Doesn't matter. It's
> >been up since the 17th May, that's over a month ago.
>
> How do you know it's been up exactly since May 17?
See, Trolls like Pete avoid the questions. I just don't believe anything
he says.
It is clear that he either has had a very good (unusual) Win32
experience or he
is telling us tails. Former may be true, but as I said before, a
computer just
sitting there doing file serving just should NOT crash. Linux doesn't,
even WinNT
is a happy bunny for longer, but Win9x is simply not designed to be
reliable and those
who state that it is are by definition suspicious.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John S. Dyson)
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome!
Date: 12 Jul 2000 10:46:23 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>>
>>Anyone, with common sense understands what is going on.
>
> Anyone with common sense should know your prognostications are just
> about as good as anyone else's that doesn't have a clue but thinks
> they're well informed. Unfortunately, common sense isn't up to the
> challenge, but at least we have your general ignorance to remind us.
>
Well, your ignorance shows that your guesses about 'swimming in
money' haven't come true yet? The big cash infusion has already
happened, and still waiting shows some delay. Prices might
increase a little for a while, but the key here is timing at
the peak, and then the subsequent time value of money. The
investment community is now aware of the conversion schemes
like GPL only firms.
>
> Manager of Research & Educational Services
> Managed Services
> [A corporation which does not wish to be identified]
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
I agree with that corp, considering the representative.
John
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John S. Dyson)
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome!
Date: 12 Jul 2000 10:39:09 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Stefaan A Eeckels) writes:
> In article <8kfltj$t7v$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Stefaan A Eeckels) wrote:
>>> IE5 is free in the "free of charge" meaning.
>>
>> The conditions for redistribution of binaries of IE5 are less
>> restrictive than for emacs binaries. The sets of freedoms given
>> to IE5 licensors and emacs licensors are not stricts subsets either
>> way.
> Arguably, that's because Microsoft used IE as a tool to
> squash a competitor. It's not a very representative
> example.
>
GPL advocates deceptively use the 'free' thereby competing
with 'free' software also. The pot is calling the kettle black.
John
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Lee Hollaar)
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome!
Date: 12 Jul 2000 11:53:44 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>It is not necessary to modify or distribute the re-used code for the
>U.S. Government Patent and Trademark Office to consider your work a
>derivative, either. RMS is just a bit more stringent in applying that
>point to ensure he maintains control of his intellectual work.
Just what does the United States Patent and Trademark Office have to
do with considering your work a derivative?
Just asking ...
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Tinman digest, volume 2451736
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 12:01:40 GMT
Karl Knechtel writes:
> Prove it, if you think you can.
Prove what? No text preceded your statement.
>> Here's today's Tinman digest:
> On the contrary.
To what, Karl?
>> 1> On the contrary.
>> 1> On the contrary.
>> 1> On the contrary.
>> 1> On the contrary.
> Argument by repetition? Ineffective.
That was Tinman's argument, Karl. Tell him, not me.
>> All you could was pontificate,
> Taking word omission lessons again?
Obviously not, Karl.
>> while ignoring the evidence for your reading comprehension problems,
> What alleged "evidence"?
I see that you have the same problem, Karl.
>> as evidenced by the questions I reproduced that you called "alleged".
> Prove it, if you think you can.
Read the previous postings in the thread, Karl.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Tinman digest, volume 2451738
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 12:02:46 GMT
Here's today's Tinman digest:
1> Hardly.
Then why did you have trouble identifying the evidence?
1> What's your excuse?
For what?
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (tinman)
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Tinman digest, volume 2451738
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 08:09:58 -0400
In article <G7Za5.29953$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Here's today's Tinman digest:
>
> 1> Hardly.
>
> Then why did you have trouble identifying the evidence?
Because there was none.
>
> 1> What's your excuse?
>
> For what?
Exactly.
--
______
tinman
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why use Linux?
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 12:06:24 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (TNT) wrote:
> How do you know it's been up exactly since May 17?
Because the web server running on the machine indicates the time it
started.
--
---
Pete
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why use Linux?
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 12:08:18 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"1$worth" <"1$worth"@costreduction.plseremove.screaming.net> wrote:
> See, Trolls like Pete avoid the questions. I just don't believe
anything
> he says.
> It is clear that he either has had a very good (unusual) Win32
> experience or he
> is telling us tails. Former may be true, but as I said before, a
> computer just
> sitting there doing file serving just should NOT crash. Linux doesn't,
> even WinNT
> is a happy bunny for longer, but Win9x is simply not designed to be
> reliable and those
> who state that it is are by definition suspicious.
Rubbish! The web server running on the machine indicates it was started
on the 17th May.
The comment that Windows 98 crashes after a month I found ludicrous,
and sure enough, I have a system nearby that's been up and running over
a month now.
--
---
Pete
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: To Pete Goodwin: How Linux saved my lunch today!
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 12:10:11 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Gary Hallock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> No, 8 desktops within KDE, selectable at the click of a button.
> Multiple desktops seems to be a concept Windows users have a hard
> time grasping.
> It is something I could not live without and is one reason why
> Windows lags behind Linux.
I don't have a hard time grasping the idea of a multiple desktops; it's
just that having six very weak desktops and two desktops that are
nearly there hardly constitutes 'choice'.
--
---
Pete
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Paul Colclough)
Subject: Re: Windows98
Date: 12 Jul 2000 12:17:26 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Tim Kelley) wrote in <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>>One thing that annoys me in Linux is where programs install themselves
>>- some go in /usr/local/bin, other go in /usr/sbin, others are in
>>/usr/local/share, etc, etc. There doesn't seem to be much difference
>>between the actual operating system components and accessories needed
>
>??? This is just crazy. There is a file system standard for linux and
>it is followed pretty well.
Just as finding something can be pretty difficult. I know distributions
install a lot more than just the operating system itself, but being able to
find all the files installed and the executables needed can be quite handy
at times. I've lost count of things that have been installed and then
simply forgot about - I know Windows programs normally always install a
load of crap into the \windows\system folder and like, but at least the
programs themselves normally have a directory to themselves.
I guess what I want really is a text mode utility to show every RPM
installed and being able to select one and find out exactly what files are
installed and where, there is a nice one for KDE, but I don't run X much as
I much prefer text mode (basically because the Linux box is normally
accessed via a network and telnet is much faster than X when the server is
a 486)
>ust because a program does not install all its files into a single
>directory does not mean it is willy-nilly. You're just not used to
>it. There is no caprice at work here, it is just the logical result
>of unix being a multi-user system and windows not being one.
I guess it's just because of the sheer number of utilities installed by a
standard linux distro compared to that installed by a Windows installation
(virtually nill)
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Paul Colclough)
Subject: Re: Windows98
Date: 12 Jul 2000 12:20:33 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nathaniel Jay Lee) wrote in
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>>KDE/Gnome/or whatever window manager) and other programs you install.
>>You don't
>> see many Windows programs installing themselves into c:\windows\system
>> now do you? They all install neatly into c:\program files\ and you can
>> pretty much find an installed program living in there in some
>> sub-directory.
>
>Would this be why so many computers have about four copies of MS Office
>on the hard drive? They started with Office 95 (installed to
Well, at least there are in three seperate directories, rather than all
being placed in /usr/bin with three slightly different executables that
would be a nightmare to remove without the help of RPM.
Also so my other reply to this group.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Warkus)
Subject: Re: I had a reality check today :(
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 22:50:57 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It was the Tue, 11 Jul 2000 15:34:05 GMT...
...and The Ghost In The Machine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >(May I enter the Wintroll contest now, pretty please?)
>
> No, but you can enter the World's Worst Spelling Contest. :-)
Didn't they give the Rasterman a Lifetime Achievement award already?
mawa
--
It is a common characteristic of all democracies that intelligence is
so highly regarded as to exempt the holder from the cares of office
-- major@pyrmania
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Warkus)
Subject: Re: Growing dependence on Java
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 22:49:52 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It was the Thu, 06 Jul 2000 23:34:51 +0800...
...and Aravind Sadagopan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
> Offlate I have seen a number of application written in Java
> Starwriter
In this gibberish of incomprehensibly overlapping sentences, are you
trying to imply that StarOffice is written in Java?
mawa
--
It is a common characteristic of all democracies that intelligence is
so highly regarded as to exempt the holder from the cares of office
-- major@pyrmania
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
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