Linux-Advocacy Digest #566, Volume #28 Tue, 22 Aug 00 15:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: refrigerator using Linux?
Re: refrigerator using Linux?
Re: GNOME/KDE issues (was: Come on, Jedi, where are you?)
Re: Anonymous Wintrolls and Authentic Linvocates - Re: R.E. Ballard
says Linux growth stagnating
Re: When it's time to not be nice... (was Re: Anonymous Wintrolls and Authentic
Linvocates - Re: R.E. Ballard says Linux growth stagnating)
Re: Anonymous Wintrolls and Authentic Linvocates - Re: R.E. Ballard
says Linux growth stagnating
Re: Anonymous Wintrolls and Authentic Linvocates - Re: R.E. Ballard
says Linux growth stagnating
Re: Anonymous Wintrolls and Authentic Linvocates - Re: R.E. Ballard
says Linux growth stagnating
Re: Sherman Act vaguery [was: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Subject: Re: refrigerator using Linux?
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 18:59:06 GMT
On Tue, 22 Aug 2000 05:23:35 GMT, Mike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>"Brian Langenberger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:8nrm38$hfa$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> Mike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> <snip!>
>>
>> : <and snip some more!>
>> :
>> : An embedded OS might make sense in my VCR. The new disk based VCRs are
>> : really cool, and connecting them to a computer might not be so bad - if
>the
>> : programming interface was better. You could even have the computer
>download
>> : the correct time from NIST once a day and download it into the VCR, as
>well
>> : as greatly simplifying the programming interface (it would be a whole
>lot
>> : easier to just click on the show to record that to go through the
>trouble of
>> : programming the start and stop times).
>>
>> I wouldn't mind a bit of home computerization, myself, if only to
>> elimate all the duplication of effort. For example, look at all the
>> appliances that have little LED clocks on them. Every time the
>> power blips or daylight savings time rolls around, I need to wander
>> the house changing the stupid things. Wouldn't it be nice if they
>> were just "clock clients" that get their time from a single source?
>> And, if that single source has a keyboard, it would make setting
>> timers a whole helluva lot easier than the one or two buttons
>> many appliances have for the purpose.
>>
>> I'm not too hopeful of a home network of dumb appliances, but I can
>> think of a few ways that it would come in handy.
>
>I think you're onto something here. Forget embedding Linux in my coffee
>maker, but it does have a built in clock, as does my microwave (although I
>can't figure out why), my oven, and my dishwasher (this is even more absurd:
>"Honey, what time is it?" "I don't know, let me check the dishwasher...").
>Right. My clocks all have clocks, of course, as does my VCR, and my
>answering machine.
Well, we already have the Linux-inside-the-VCR gadget and it
works remarkably well actually (Tivo). Doing the same for
answering machines might be a good idea. Give them a crapload
of storage, store messages digitally with timestamps, give
the answering machine a usb or 100baseT interface and latch
it onto the home LAN with a web based interface for admin and
message retrieval.
>
>There's very little I ever want these appliances to do, besides what they
>were meant to do. But I would love it if they all had some exceptionally
>simple and cheap interface that allowed them to connect to each other
>through an exceptionally simple and cheap interface to find out what they
>needed to know (which just happens to be, in almost every case, the time).
ftp... http...
There's a linux based security camera that has an http interface.
>
>That could be implemented simply and cheaply, and could communicate over
>something cheap and readily available like a phone cord (but not that, since
>then everyone would be trying to take phone calls with the Mr. Coffee).
>
>-- Mike --
>
>
--
Finding an alternative should not be like seeking out the holy grail.
That is the whole damn point of capitalism.
|||
/ | \
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Subject: Re: refrigerator using Linux?
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 19:00:04 GMT
On Tue, 22 Aug 2000 05:37:38 GMT, Mike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>"mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> In article <8nm9js$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Dan Jacobson wrote:
>> >What's this I read that even a refrigerator could be using Linux? To
>help me visual
>> >modem, printer, GPS [Global positioning system]... so let's say the PC
>was shrunk do
>> >brains; I suppose upon booting [i.e., when the AC cord is plugged in]
>there would
>> >immediately throw the computer into a loop controlling the
>refrigerator... ok, go
>> >Micro$oft stuff here? couldn't the same be achieved with autoexec.bat?
>Or is th
>>
>> No, it's simply that I want my fridge to keep my food at the correct
>temperature
>> all of the time 24x7x365. I do not want to re-boot after installing
>oranges.
>>
>> I do not want a fridge which is reliable enough for the average microsoft
>> victim.
>
>Nor one that requires a Unix sysadmin to operate.
My TiVo doesn't require a Unix sysadmin to operate.
>
>A simple logic circuit is all that's required. Not even a 4004.
It's actually got a remarkably better user interface than
the VCR that sits on top of it...
--
Finding an alternative should not be like seeking out the holy grail.
That is the whole damn point of capitalism.
|||
/ | \
------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: GNOME/KDE issues (was: Come on, Jedi, where are you?)
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 10:53:05 -0700
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>I may have too strong an ego to care.
I will second that! ;-)
------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Anonymous Wintrolls and Authentic Linvocates - Re: R.E. Ballard
says Linux growth stagnating
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 11:38:06 -0700
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribi�:
> >
> > Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > > Mind you, I would apply just as esily those paragraphs to me as to
> > > anyone
> > > else: I HAVE been provided a OS for free, now I use it or I don't. I
> > > improve it or I don't. I influence its development or I don't. And
> > > that's
> > > all there is.
> >
> > Do you mean that your developmental efforts were worthless?
>
> No.
Then Linux was not given to you, as mana from heaven, you earned it by your
efforts on its behalf. Correct?
>
> > Linux is free in that we can do as we please with a copy of it. We can
> > install it on as many system as we please, we can give away as many
copies
> > as we please, we don't *have to* pay a monetary price for it. However,
> > through our efforts we have earned the Linux OS, so Linux is not a gift
to
> > the plebs as your statement implies.
>
> Except for perhaps half a dozen people, I'd say we were given the OS.
And you would be wrong. Who's efforts would you count and who would you
discount? It took a heck of a lot more than just 6 people to create and
maintain and debug and patch and document and advocate and promote and teach
and assist and etc Linux into the OS now have.
> > > > > I must have missed it. No big deal anyway, since the argument died
> > > > > already.
> >
> > > In the middle, I had reached an agreement with him to let the thread
> > > die.
> > > If the goal was to make me shut up about it, it was already done, thus
> > > it made no difference. No big deal.
> >
> > As you know that thread did not die at that point after all, it
continued on
> > for a little but more so your comment cited here was contemporaneous
with
> > the discussion, which did die latter that same day.
>
> Nice of you to delete the original text.
You point is what?
>
> > The goal was never to make you "shut up", although I do feel that was
your
> > goal with us.
>
> Nope. Feel free to discuss anything you want. I'd just rather see
> the effort spent somewhere else, but it's not my effort, so all I can do
> is speak my mind about it.
Oh please, don't feed me straight lines like that!
This is a usenet newsgroup, that same as what has also been called
discussion groups. This is were we discuss ideas. Ideas and discussions
are the birth of the more tangible items. It is our right to discuss ideas
that are being bandied about all too carelessly to the point of being
considered a truism by some. If I seem something that I consider harmful to
the Linux community I will not sit quitely by waiting for it to play itself
out and then try to help pick up the pieces and set things right again. Not
if expressing a little moderating views could help prevent the disaster in
the first place. If you don't agree that discussions can be valuable, what
are you doing here in the first place.
> > The goal on my side of the discussion and at least for my
> > part. Was to try to convince you to see reason, in that we had honet
> > concerns for the future of Linux, that we have a valid stake in the
future
> > of Linux, that not all badly implemented ideas are worth fixing sometime
it
> > is so badly conceived that it better to abandon it than wast time fixing
it.
>
> Cool, let's go back to the example: Corel Linux's HW detection thing.
> I said "don't use Corel Linux or fix it". Abandoning it was one of
> the choices I suggested. We are agreeing.
>
> > I also had the goals of fostering the acceptance in the value of the
> > flexibility unix and respect for the human over the hardware.
>
> I appreciate any human over any hardware, no need to convince me at all.
Then you must agree that the Windows style of autodetecting hardware is
wrong and having the behavior migrate into Linux is bad. As I have stated
before, autodetection should be performed at most during installation and
only when the human responsible for the computer requests the computer to
perform that act again. Even then it should be only to advise the human of
what the computer thinks it has detected, permitting the human to override
everything and anything BEFORE it become a part of the system's
configuration. In short that automation should work in an advisory capacity
only and submit to the human's judgement.
No amount of fixing the autodetectors is going to help anything as long they
are being deployed the way they are. Besides the autodetectors will never
be accurate.
------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: When it's time to not be nice... (was Re: Anonymous Wintrolls and
Authentic Linvocates - Re: R.E. Ballard says Linux growth stagnating)
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 10:46:39 -0700
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Cool, I respect you for it. So?
So, that provides evidence of the invalid assumptions that your attitude
lead you to form.
> There *is* a dicotomy.
While that may be your view of things, it is not or at least has not been
the reality of the Linux community.
> Yawn.
More flame bait?
> I contribute to the first large software project
> in Linux that started a trend towards making linux usable by more
> newbies.
The kernel? That was the first big project in Linux on which makes
everything else possible. If you are talking about KDE, it is not Linux
software, it is unix software, properly written it should work on any unix
system that runs X--and perhaps other systems using X as well.
> I care so much about newbies that I try to make them non-newbies
> all the time.
And disparage them at the same time?
> I use the words often. I had done so in this very thread already.
> And in the message three posts ago in the thread, if you look.
Using when discussing the email reply, it still suspicious. If you had not
written it, that would not have been your reation to it. If your use that
phrase as often as you seem to, it does not speak well of you and you can
hardly be supprised at peoples reactions to you.
------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Anonymous Wintrolls and Authentic Linvocates - Re: R.E. Ballard
says Linux growth stagnating
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 11:57:06 -0700
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribi�:
> >
> > Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribi�:
> > > >
> > > > Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > >
> > > > > I'm game, but be specific, or go fuck yourself.
> > > >
> > > > Now what did I say the earn a reply with that tone from him?
> > >
> > > Y9ou said something like that I disrespected the linux user base, or
> > > some such. Can't tell, because you sniped it.
> >
> > Why it that a problem? Can't you read back the thread?
>
> Nope, lame expires.
Setup your own server with decent expires.
>
> --
> Roberto Alsina
------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Anonymous Wintrolls and Authentic Linvocates - Re: R.E. Ballard
says Linux growth stagnating
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 11:54:01 -0700
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribi�:
> >
> > Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > > Bullshit. I didn't say that. Go read the damn thread.
> > > Whenever Nathaniel Lee said I was saying that, I said "no
> > > I am not saying that, I am saying this other thing".
> >
> > cancel control messages can sure be handy.
>
> Are you saying I cancelled my own messages? I did not. Prove it
> or apologize. In fact, I only have cancelled ONE message in the
> years I have been in usenet, and it was not in this year.
It certainly looks that way, your most damning statements have vanished for
the news server long before the time they should have expired. However, if
you have not caused that situation, I apologize.
>
> > > Here's what I want to say: You don't like the direction linux is
going?
> > > Work and fix it. It doesn't make any difference if you have
contributed
> > > in the past or not, really, you still need to work and fix it.
> >
> > No body has to work to fix any of this, if it was not broken by others
> > first. In that case we were talking about somthing that is correct the
way
> > it is. You seemed to take the position that hey we can break anything
we
> > like and if you want it fixed, the way it was, then fix it back into
working
> > order again and don't bother me with your concerns.
>
> Nonsense. The previous version would still be there, so fixing would be
> just
> a matter of downgrading.
So you are saying that if we long time users have issues with the course of
Linux development, our solution should be to relegate our computers to
running outdated versions of the OS and/or its supporting software and
become outcasts of the very community the we helped build. My how Animal
Farmish of you!
>
> I said, indeed that if you don't like Corel's HW detection, you can
> either
> not use Corel, or fix it, and I stand behind that.
That was just one sample of a much larger set of issues.
>
> --
> Roberto Alsina
------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Anonymous Wintrolls and Authentic Linvocates - Re: R.E. Ballard
says Linux growth stagnating
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 11:58:05 -0700
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribi�:
> >
> > Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribi�:
> > > >
> > > > Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > > > > I'm game, but be specific, or go fuck yourself.
> > > >
> > > > Thank you, you have proven my point for me in this issue.
> > >
> > > Whatever. It's a situation where anything I said would be
> > > used against me, right? Fuck yourself is adequate, then.
> >
> > You proved the point reguarding your attitude by using what now appears
to
> > be your favorite vulgarity.
>
> My repertoire of english language vulgarities is small.
A novel idea, don't use vulgarities at all.
>
> --
> Roberto Alsina
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Sherman Act vaguery [was: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?]
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 19:04:18 GMT
On Tue, 22 Aug 2000 03:07:24 GMT, Courageous <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>joseph wrote:
>>
>> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>> Larry Brasfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>>
>> > > >
>> > > > I understand that, thanks.
>> > >
>> > > Then why did you make the above argument?
>> >
>> > Because I believe that people should not be
>> > found liable in civil or criminal actions
>> > based on laws that are too vague to allow a
>> > potential defendendant to reasonably predict
>> > what is legal and what is not.
>>
>> What could more vauge than the US constitution?
>
>The Constitution isn't really vague. It's just that after
Bullshit.
The US Constitution is filled with language that
is open to interpretation. That is much of the
problem with the current growth in federal power.
"unreasonable" "cruel and unusual" "limited time"
[deletia]
Most simple business contracts in this day and age are more
tightly expressed.
--
Finding an alternative should not be like seeking out the holy grail.
That is the whole damn point of capitalism.
|||
/ | \
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
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