Linux-Advocacy Digest #468, Volume #29 Thu, 5 Oct 00 13:13:08 EDT
Contents:
Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?) (The Ghost In
The Machine)
Re: What kind of WinTroll Idiot are you anyway? ("Chad")
Re: Space Shuttle uses Windows software almost exclusively (.)
Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?) (The Ghost In
The Machine)
Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes (was: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split ...) ("Aaron R.
Kulkis")
Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes (was: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split ...) ("Aaron R.
Kulkis")
!!Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Subject: Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?)
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 16:17:51 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Roberto Alsina
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote
on Wed, 4 Oct 2000 18:52:23 -0300
<00100419020704.13846@pc03>:
>El mi�, 04 oct 2000, Richard escribi�:
>>Roberto Alsina wrote:
>>>
>>> El mi�, 04 oct 2000, Richard escribi�:
>>> >> It is simple to explain Napoleon as a solar myth. Try it.
>>> >> Predictive power of
>>> >
>>> >Bullshit. Any such "explanation" will be utter nonsense.
>>>
>>> That's why explanatory power in itself is such a vaguely measurable thing.
>>
>>It is perfectly measurable. That humans tend to consistently fuck up the
>>measurements is a purely HUMAN problem, completely outside the philosophy
>>of science.
>
>What metric would you use to measure "explanatory power"?
Cubit meters of hot air per hour? :-)
[rest snipped]
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
------------------------------
Reply-To: "Chad" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Chad" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: What kind of WinTroll Idiot are you anyway?
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 16:22:57 GMT
"John Sanders" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Chad Myers wrote:
> > I can't speak for anyone else, but, if for nothing else, to put you
> > guys in your place. Most of you (Penguinistas) are militant, ready to
> > lie and to decieve and go on the attack. You constantly spread lies
> > and half truths to further your cause. You constantly insult Windows
> > NT and 2000 specifically when you obviously know nothing of what you
> > speak.
> This is the real problem. "...know nothing of what you speak." How
> many people here advocate Linux that have never had any experience with
> Windows? What would you guess? I would say there might be only a
> handfull who were NOT familiar with Windows.
Familiar? That's a relative term. A large majority of posters who bash
Windows usually refer to the inadequacies of Windows 9x (which all
agree on) when attempting to bash Windows NT or 2000. This simply proves
they have NO experience with Windows NT at all. Anyone who has even sat
at an NT box can tell in the first few seconds that its guts are completely
different and more robust than the crud in Win9x.
They also refer to many old concepts from the 3.51 days or problems that
occured in NT 4.0 SP1. They usually have no recent concept of Windows
NT post SP3 or 4 which is dramatically different than NT 4 SP0 or 1.
I think you'd be hard to find a person, especially an NT advocate that
says NT 4.0 < SP3 was a pile of crap. It had the foundation but the
house on top of it sucked. SP3 built a better house and it just kept
getting better SP4 and on.
> On the other hand, how many people here that support Windows do you
> suppose have a good knowledge of Linux/UNIX? I mean people who know the
> shell well and regexps at a minimum? I bet only a handful.
That's irrelevant. You'll see that most arguments against linux do not
get into the nitty gritty, but rather use arguments based on the findings
of people who DO know about Linux intimately. Example? The Mindcraft II
findings and RedHat's and later Linus' admission that Linux needed some
serious kernel reworking for the networking portion and the SMP scaling
areas. This is a good example. You won't see a Winvocate attempting to
delve into the nitty gritty, they just cite sources.
OTOH, you see Linvocates attempting to delve into the bowels of NT/2K
and try to claim it's broken. Most of these attempts are easily dismissed
because they are based on 5 or 6 year old arguments and facts that
aren't facts anymore. There are linvocates that stick with the facts
and the findings of individuals more skilled then themselves, these are
when the real debates occur because there is something we can talk about.
Other than that, they are just speaking out of their ass, as mentioned
above.
> Who do you think knows nothing of what they speak?
Most linvocates, as mentioned above.
-Chad
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (.)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Space Shuttle uses Windows software almost exclusively
Date: 5 Oct 2000 16:25:08 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy Bob Germer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 10/05/2000 at 10:12 AM,
> Eric Remy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
>> >The official reason was that one processor talked in m/s while another
>> >processor talked in ft/s. OOps.
>> Think of it as a *very* expensive object lesson to engineers.
>> Every year I deal with large numbers of freshman, many of them
>> engineering majors. Every year I try to teach them chemistry. Every
>> year I watch them happily do calculations and write down (wrong) answers
>> with no units attached. And now, every year, I get to use the Mars
>> probe as an example of why you actually need to pay attention to these
>> little details.
>> Some of them even listen. I hope they're the ones designing the bridges
>> I'll drive across in the future.
> It doesn't hurt to keep track of plus and minus signs either. As a
> freshman in Civil Engineering class surveying the campus as a lab project,
> I located the campus chapel somewhere in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean
> because I subtracted when I should have added. Of course many of my
> classmates wished I were correct since chapel attendance was mandatory
> back in the 50's and really cut into the drinking time.
No one cares about your little anecdotes, bob.
=====.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Subject: Re: Because programmers hate users (Re: Why are Linux UIs so crappy?)
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 16:26:00 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Richard
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote
on Wed, 04 Oct 2000 22:42:09 GMT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>Roberto Alsina wrote:
>> Well, I tend to trust dictionary definitions when someone tells me
>> I misuse a word. Where should I look? I believed immortal to have
>> a meaning. You claimed it has a completely different one, one which
>> I know doesn't fit the context where I have seen the word used in
>> the past. So, I look for a reference. If you can provide a reference
>> supporting your meaning and not mine, please provide.
>
>I change my definitions:
>
>immortal = animate object that does not age
>eternal = inanimate object that does not age OR animate object
> that does not die
>
>Perpetual cell lines are immortal. Elementary particles are eternal.
Pedant point.
There is some discussion as to whether a proton can and will decay or not
(i.e., what is its half life). Many of the larger "elementary particles"
decay fairly quickly.
>When people say that "the stone is immortal" they are being mystical
>and thinking of it as an animate object. "the eternal flame" either
>implies that the flame is animate and never goes out, or is inanimate
>but doesn't age depending on how mystical someone is.
>
>Corporations are immortal because they do not age and are animate beings
>(and thus animate objects).
I suspect corporations do age, although not in the same manner as
we humans do; they certainly can mutate. Consider that IBM (IIRC) used
to be manufacturing tabulators of some sort, for example. I rather
doubt they do that now, unless one suggests that a computer is an
ultra-fast tabulator (which they can be, but they can do so much more).
Of course, "age" therefore might not be the right word. But corporations
can and do die, or get eaten by other corporations. More precisely,
corporations fold or go bankrubt, and get acquired -- but the metaphor
of dying or being eaten isn't that far off.
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- if there are poison pills, why isn't there hot sauce?
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes (was: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split ...)
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 12:29:45 -0400
ZnU wrote:
>
> In article <8rbls4$4a2$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "James Stutts"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > "Loren Petrich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:8rb4ll$h19$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, STATIC66
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > > >>>> 3. Social Security
> > > >>>Unconstitutional. END IT NOW.
> > > >>Based on what ? Your opinion ? The opinions that count, legal
> > > >>opinions of those better qualified than yourself seem to
> > > >>contradict this.
> > > >SOCIALISM
> > >
> > > Nowhere does the Constitution mention that word.
> > >
> > > >>>> 4. Medicare
> > > >>>Unconstitutional. END IT NOW.
> > > >>See above.
> > > >SOCIALISM
> > >
> > > Nowhere does the Constitution mention that word.
> >
> > In both cases, it doesn't have to. I suggest you read the 10th
> > Amendment. If it isn't explicitly stated in the Constitution, the
> > Congress has no business doing it.
>
> Which reads "The powers not delegated to the United States by the
> Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the
> States respectively, or to the people."
>
> But article 1, section 8 gives Congress the power to, among other
> things, provide for the "general Welfare of the United States," and the
> power to make any laws necessary to do so.
GENERAL WELFARE... is such things as running a court system, jails,
etc. I.e. things which benefit society as a whole.
AFDC, WIC, Section 8 housing, etc. are INDIVIDUAL WELFARE....which
only benefits lazy free-loaders.
>
> [snip]
>
> --
> This universe shipped by weight, not volume. Some expansion may have
> occurred during shipment.
>
> ZnU <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | <http://znu.dhs.org>
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
http://directedfire.com/greatgungiveaway/directedfire.referrer.fcgi?2632
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes (was: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split ...)
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 12:31:59 -0400
ZnU wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Aaron R. Kulkis"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Loren Petrich wrote:
> > >
> > > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Aaron R. Kulkis
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Loren Petrich wrote:
> > >
> > > > > And Mr. Kulkis seems to like everything that he professes to
> > > > > object
> > > > > to when it's military. So the ideal way to get even the
> > > > > grossest pork past the Kulkises of the world is to claim some
> > > > > "national defense" purpose to it.
> > >
> > > > I'm one of the first to admit that defense spending is abused.
> > >
> > > Praise with faint damns.
> > >
> > > > What I can't figure out is why you advocate running the ENTIRE
> > > > ECONOMY IN THE SAME FASHION.
> > >
> > > I've never advocated that.
> > >
> > > > Robinhood stole from the tax collectors and returned the money to
> > > > the people.
> > >
> > > Law-abiding means paying taxes. What part of that do you not
> > > understand?'
> >
> > Taxes collected for the purpose of giving the money to someone else
> > are unjust, and, by the Constitution, Illegal.
>
> The first article gives Congress the power to both collect taxes and
> provide for the general welfare.
GENERAL WELFARE means running a court system, jails, etc. EVERYBODY
benefits when criminals are incarcerated.
WIC, AFDC, Section 8 Housing, etc. are NOT GENERAL...they are robbing
from those who work for the benefit of the INDIVIDUAL who recieves the
benefit.
Thus, "Welfare for the poor" programs are unconstitutional.
>
> --
> This universe shipped by weight, not volume. Some expansion may have
> occurred during shipment.
>
> ZnU <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | <http://znu.dhs.org>
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
http://directedfire.com/greatgungiveaway/directedfire.referrer.fcgi?2632
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: !!Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 12:33:41 -0400
Chad Myers wrote:
>
> "Donovan Rebbechi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > On Thu, 05 Oct 2000 03:01:04 GMT, Chad Myers wrote:
> >
> > STATIC66 is replying to Petrich. It's amusing to see you jumping through
> > hoops to defend him. BTW, if you're not convinced that Kulkis is a
> > rabid zealot, read his posts on OSs.
>
> Now don't go putting words in my mouth! I never said Aaron wasn't a
> rabid zealot! He isn't a flaming liberal either, and that's what I
> gathered STATIC66 was attempting to claim.
>
> > >I believe this part started because Aaron was complaining about how
> > >our money is being bilked by the worthless poor who seem to have no
> > >reason to get off of our money (aka welfare) because it just keeps
> > >coming without responsibility.
> >
> > This is, simply put, a lie. Welfare is *not* a viable career, because you
> > cannot collect welfare checks forever. I don't understand why the
> > rightists keep lying about this, especially since I've corrected them
> > several times.
>
> There are welfare recipients who have been collecting checks for years.
> They increase their income, some of which are:
>
> - having more children
> - pulling food stamp scams for more cash to gamble with
> - feigning disability to collect disability on top of their welfare
> - selling drugs or other illegal products
>
> A member of my family is a bankruptcy/collections lawyer. He defends
> and prosecutes people and companies with collection or bankruptcy
> difficulties.
>
> Many of the people he serves as plaintiff against for the various
> small businesses around town are the lowest of the low life dredges
> of society (almost all on welfare or pulling some type of paycheck
> from the government).
>
> There have been several cases where, upon investigation of some
> of these people, he had to call child protective services because
> they were neglecting the needs of their children to buy luxury
> items, feed and pamper their pedigree dogs (this is a common one,
> can you believe it?), or make payments on their new automobile or
> additions/upgrades for an existing automobile.
>
> Several children had health problems that were not being taken
> care of because the parents couldn't afford health care because
> all their money was going to drugs, their car, their dogs, or
> luxury items like watches, stereos, televisions, etc.
>
> Make no bones, these people had been on welfare almost their
> whole life and had figured out ways to keep the checks coming
> and would sometimes purposely wound themselves in minor ways
> to scam a disability check. These people are lower than
> criminals.
>
> -Chad
Exactly my point
WELFARE IS THEFT FROM THOSE WHO WORK!!!
END WELFARE NOW!
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
http://directedfire.com/greatgungiveaway/directedfire.referrer.fcgi?2632
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 12:34:23 -0400
Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
>
> On Thu, 05 Oct 2000 04:17:07 GMT, Chad Myers wrote:
> >
>
> >There are welfare recipients who have been collecting checks for years.
> >They increase their income, some of which are:
> >
> >- having more children
>
> This is legal but questionable.
>
> >- pulling food stamp scams for more cash to gamble with
>
> Illegal, probably fraud.
>
> >- feigning disability to collect disability on top of their welfare
>
> This is social security fraud, and it's a criminal offense.
>
> >- selling drugs or other illegal products
>
> Clearly a criminal offense.
>
> My point is that a lot of the things you're complaining about are wrong,
> should be criminalised, and most importantly, are criminalised.
>
> >Several children had health problems that were not being taken
> >care of because the parents couldn't afford health care because
>
> IMO, the current health care system is badly broken. The problem is
> that it's employer based, and health insurance for individuals is too
> expensive to be practical. Still, I don't think better health care will
> cure negligent parents.
>
> >Make no bones, these people had been on welfare almost their
> >whole life and had figured out ways to keep the checks coming
>
> Welfare reform has cut the rolls in half.
AFter much pissing and moaning the by the Commun^H^H^H^HDemocrats...
>
> >and would sometimes purposely wound themselves in minor ways
> >to scam a disability check. These people are lower than
> >criminals.
>
> Well, they are criminals. Though you could argue that they are lower than
> other criminals.
>
> --
> Donovan
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
http://directedfire.com/greatgungiveaway/directedfire.referrer.fcgi?2632
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
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