Linux-Advocacy Digest #181, Volume #30 Sat, 11 Nov 00 18:13:04 EST
Contents:
Re: Lets try serious advocacy/discussion. ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linux + KDE2 = 8) ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: A Microsoft exodus! (The Ghost In The Machine)
Re: Windows vs. everybody-else in the desktop/server markets. (Long!) (bob_more)
Re: KDE vs GNOME: specific issues (Bill Kocynjski)
Re: A Microsoft exodus! (The Ghost In The Machine)
Re: Linux 2.4 mired in delays as Compaq warns of lack of momentum (Goldhammer)
Re: KDE vs GNOME: specific issues (Jim Richardson)
Re: Linux growth rate explosion! (Jim Richardson)
Re: More Certification (Jim Richardson)
Re: Why don't I use Linux? (Jim Richardson)
Re: A Microsoft exodus! (dc)
Re: Linux 2.4 mired in delays as Compaq warns of lack of momentum (Paul Colquhoun)
Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever ("Nigel Feltham")
Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes (was: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split ...) ("Chad
Myers")
Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever ("Nigel Feltham")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Lets try serious advocacy/discussion.
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 21:14:34 GMT
On Sat, 11 Nov 2000 20:44:53 +0000, Pete Goodwin
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>> Why should it?
>> Linux games? I would hardly call Asteroids or Tetris a show stopper.
>
>And what does Windows come with? Patience? Hearts?
Pinball comes with Windows 2k. But the point is that there ARE many
games available for Windows and virtually none for Linux, excepting
Loki stuff. I didn't bring up the games issue, the other guy did.
Personally I'd buy a Playstation 2.
Where is Diablo II anyway?
Will there even be one?
>> Text editors? Notepad and Wordpad are fine for average folks.
>
>Ah, notepad is based on a 16 bit control in Windows 98 SE/ME. It cannot
>load a file bigger than 64k.
It's fine for reading Readme files which are about the only text
files the average home user is going to get involved with.
>Wordpad is based on the RichEdit control which can load as much memory as
>you have... except it literally loads it _all_ into memory.
See above.
>> Admin tools? Exactly what more does one need to do on a home system?
>
>Well, the admin tools are a bit confusing to me, a Windows user.
I still don't know what needs to be Administered on a home system?
Dfrag/scandisk/recoverydisk/add an ip address/change the dialup phone
number...All trivial to do without any real admin tools.
>> Office Suite? Windows users can D/L StarOffice too, but they are not.
>
>StarOffice price?
Free. And that's just the point. How many people do you see using it?
Better yet how many in a commercial setting?
Nope...Linux ain't ready for the home.
You're on the Linux bandwagon now, and that's fine, but how long it
last's remains to be seen.
claire
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Linux + KDE2 = 8)
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 21:15:00 GMT
That didn't take long :)
claire
On Sat, 11 Nov 2000 20:40:41 +0000, Pete Goodwin
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Ah, but not all is sweetness and light...
>
>I've logged a few bugs against konqueror:
>
>smb:/pc166/kits
>
>does not work, whereas
>
>smb:/pc166/kits/
>
>does!
>
>ftp:/pc166/kits
>
>does work, but I can't access the files.
>
>Now, of course, Windows 98 SE does the equivalent of smb with no problems.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 21:20:45 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Ayende Rahien
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote
on Sat, 11 Nov 2000 07:49:13 +0200
<8uiqfc$tpm$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>"Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:7H4P5.18468$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>>
>> "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> news:8uind4$t6h$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> >
>>
>> > > > You don't choose blindly, you say no, review the code, and then
>choose
>> > > > whatever to execute it.
>> > >
>> > > Can you guarantee that everyone will do it in exactly that
>> > > order?
>> >
>> > Can car makers guarantee that cars will be locked?
>>
>> Does that justify making it difficult to use the lock? Instead of
>> a push button you have to memorize an infinite table of filename
>> associations that you can't see anywhere.
>
>It's not hard to lock.
>
>A> COM;.EXE;.BAT;.CMD;.VBS;.VBE;.JS;.JSE;.WSF;.WSH are the dangerous files.
>You must have a different defination of infinite than I do.
>B> regedit > Hket_Classes_Root will give you a list of all the registered
>file types in the system.
>
>
>
You forgot .DOC and .XLS. :-)
I'm not sure what other files are OLE-aware, either. Fortunately,
Word and Excel have options not to read the init macros,
so maybe this isn't a big worry.
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Windows vs. everybody-else in the desktop/server markets. (Long!)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: bob_more <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 16:18:20 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Stefan Ohlsson) wrote:
> Ayende Rahien wrote:
> >>Nothing that is reliable. The lack of reliable sources does not make =
the
> >>counter reliable
> >So when you've at tracking device installed on a lot of the webpages, =
in
> >fact, it's the most installed tracking device that I'm currently aware=
of,
> >you say it's invalid, and do not propuse any other way to get it?
> >Please note that I couldn't care less about the number themselves (and=
said
> >so in the original post) it's the precentage that interest me.
> >
> The problem is that different sites are visited by a different audience=
=2E
> The problem is also that we, as investigators, don't have any control
> whatsoever of what sites are used in the measurement. There is no guara=
ntee
> that the sample is not biased.
> To give one example from each end; How many Linux users visit microsoft=
=2Ecom
> and how many Windows users visit debian.org? How many are repeat vistor=
s and
> how many isn't? I maintain a website using an Amiga, and the statistics
> for the Amiga is _severely_ biased by my checking up on the site.
>=20
> Thecounter is not totally useless though, it can give an indication or =
a rough
> estimate of things.
>=20
> /Stefan
the amiga remains a curiosity of mine. Is yours an original, or what the =
new
thing is supposed to be. And is there an official "amiga.org"? or equival=
ent?
Thanks
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bill Kocynjski)
Subject: Re: KDE vs GNOME: specific issues
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 16:19:35 -0500
In article <%B1P5.184032$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, John Meyer
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Jeff Jeffries wrote:
>
> > I need to choose either GNOME or KDE. I will be doing computationally
> > intensive C++, with very heavy disk I/O. Results will be displayed in 3D
> > preferrably with OpenGL.
> >
> Dumb question, but why do you need to choose? They're both free
You are suggesting that my question is dumb?
Yes, I guess I could use both at the same time. And of course they are
exactly the same. Yes, it all makes sense now, thanks to your brilliant
and well informed answer, and I am very indepted to you, not to mention
jealous of your amazing level of intelligence...
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 21:34:44 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Ayende Rahien
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote
on Sat, 11 Nov 2000 09:44:35 +0200
<8uj17q$68h$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>"Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:AN5P5.18657$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>>
>> "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> news:8uipvj$ohk$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> >
>> > >
>> > > Rm isn't going to mail your files off to someone who wants to steal
>> > > the contents. Outlook has demonstrated this capability again and
>> > > again.
>> >
>> > Details?
>>
>> The Microsoft source code is the obvious one, but the same
>> trick has likely worked everywhere Melissa and ILOVEYOU
>> did.
>
>ILOVEU & Melissa didn't mail any of your files to anyone.
>Check symnatec.com for further information.
>
>
>
QAZ did try to ship passwords to somewhere in Asia.
I don't think it used SMTP or IMAP, though -- it used HTTP.
Probably HTTP POST.
Any trojan on any system could do the same. :-)
Microsoft just makes it lots easier -- and isn't
that what it's all about anyway? :-)
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
------------------------------
From: Goldhammer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux 2.4 mired in delays as Compaq warns of lack of momentum
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 21:29:01 GMT
In article <xu4P5.3991$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> "Goldhammer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:8uij0g$a2s$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Why are so many of you hung up about filesizes when the
> > comment being discussed had to do with database sizes? A database
> > is not a file.
>
> When you create a tablespace in Oracle, is not the syntax:
>
> CREATE TABLESPACE <tablespace name>
> DATAFILE '<path to data file>'....
>
> What, exactly is the "datafile" if not a file, then?
Where did I say that an Oracle datafile isn't a file?
--
Don't think you are. Know you are.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Richardson)
Crossposted-To: linux.redhat,alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: KDE vs GNOME: specific issues
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 13:33:40 -0800
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On 6 Nov 2000 12:40:51 GMT,
Donovan Rebbechi, in the persona of <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
brought forth the following words...:
>On Mon, 06 Nov 2000 01:33:33 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>>Well, KDevelop 1.3 (for KDE) just came out, so if you need an IDE to
>>work within that might be your best choice. GNOME has glade, but I
>>found it less confusing to just code the stuff from scratch myself.
>
>KDevelop is an IDE, which uses an automake/autoconf based build under the
>hood. Their default configure.in files are quite handy if you're going to be
>writing any KDE/QT based projects. (however, I prefer to steer clear of
>automake. I find the automake-Makefiles very messy)
>
>Glade on the other hand is a GUI builder, which generates XML GUIs. the
>idea is that you build the GUI by way of drag-and-drool and just implement
>the callbacks ("slots" in Qt-speak) by hand. The intriguing aspect of
>glade is that the GUIs can be built on-the-fly at runtime from the
>XML files. Only the callbacks need to be read at compile-time.
>
>This is very similar to the Qt designer package. However, it seems that
>Qt designer works by generating all the source code (and it appears that
>it forces you to derive just to implement the slots by hand, which is
>very annoying. In contrast with glade, which uses a seperate file
>callbacks.c for its "slots" that doesn't get overwritten on subsequent
>runs of glade)
>
>--
>Donovan
Also, there are ways to use glade with python, (and I think perl) because of
the modularity approach. The GUI is simply one module, it can call Python.
(At least as I understand it)
--
Jim Richardson
Anarchist, pagan and proud of it
WWW.eskimo.com/~warlock
Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Richardson)
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux growth rate explosion!
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 13:43:16 -0800
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Mon, 06 Nov 2000 04:37:34 GMT,
Charlie Ebert, in the persona of <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
brought forth the following words...:
>Jim Richardson wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >'something better' is not Star Office.
>> >
>> >Its not open source when you have to sign a Sun agreement....is it?
>> >
>> >
>>
>> Star Office is now under the GPL.
>>
>
>I'm waiting for Debian to put it in MAIN then.
>
It'll be a while, I understand that they had to chop a fair bit of code out
in order to release under GPL, it may take some time to fix that. Also, the
gnome folks are (IIRC) trying to chop SO into smaller bits, to make it a little
less of a monolithic monster.
--
Jim Richardson
Anarchist, pagan and proud of it
WWW.eskimo.com/~warlock
Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Richardson)
Subject: Re: More Certification
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 13:46:07 -0800
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On 5 Nov 2000 21:02:16 -0800,
Tim Smith, in the persona of <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
brought forth the following words...:
>VanPopering <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>college is a waste of time as far as computer go. go look at the
>>computer sci. list. All the computer classes required - Great. but
>>the prerequisites you have to take before them (all the math, calculus,
>>etc) has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with computers, networking, etc.
>>THAT is a waste of time and money. I've asked many Unix/Linux sys admin
>
>Start reading Knuth and tell us how far you get in the exercises without
>knowing "all the math, calculus, etc".
>
I am still trying to understand how someone could for example, figure out an
efficient sorting algorithm, without knowing some math. Or being ablt to
intelligently choose which algorithm to use in � given situation. I suppose you
could memorise lists of situation<-> algorithm, but frankly, understanding is
easier than rote memory of nP combinations...
--
Jim Richardson
Anarchist, pagan and proud of it
WWW.eskimo.com/~warlock
Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Richardson)
Subject: Re: Why don't I use Linux?
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 14:03:57 -0800
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On 6 Nov 2000 17:28:02 GMT,
Andres Soolo, in the persona of <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
brought forth the following words...:
>Aaron Ginn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> grep. I believe grep stands for 'Global Regular Expression Program'
>I thought it was for g/re/p , the corresponding command in ed.
>
I allways heard it as Grab a REgular expression and Print
>--
>Andres Soolo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>Lackland's Laws:
> 1. Never be first.
> 2. Never be last.
> 3. Never volunteer for anything.
4. If someone volunteers you, look confused.
--
Jim Richardson
Anarchist, pagan and proud of it
WWW.eskimo.com/~warlock
Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS.
------------------------------
From: dc <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 16:31:32 -0600
On Sat, 11 Nov 2000 20:05:34 GMT, "Les Mikesell"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>"Curtis" <alliem@kas*spam*net.com> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> Les Mikesell wrote...
>>
>> > In outlook email if you do the same, you are executing it with the
>> > application
>> > the sender wanted to be associated, not any choice that you have
>> > made.
>>
>> I don't know about you, but I control my associations and hence I'm the
>> one determining which application is used and not the sender.
>
>How nice for you. If you would like to do the same for a few hundred
>people in remote offices and check them after every program
>install then I could be as safe as if they used a reasonable program.
>If you aren't willing to do that, don't try to tell me it isn't a real
>problem.
Sounds like you've got a security problem - which is easily solveable.
Just run Windows NT / Win2k and lock down the security on the
workstations.
>> Take for example, I associated .reg files with my text editor. Are you
>> saying that if a sender sends me a file with a .reg extension with the
>> intention of messing up my registry, that they will determine what
>> application is used to run the reg file (regedit in this case)?
>
>Until you reinstall the OS, or a program that decides to make
>itself the default handler for something.
Can't be done if you apply the right security. Why haven't you done
so?
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Paul Colquhoun)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux 2.4 mired in delays as Compaq warns of lack of momentum
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 22:46:35 GMT
On Sat, 11 Nov 2000 14:40:36 GMT, Chad Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
|
|"Paul Colquhoun" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
|news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
|> On Sat, 11 Nov 2000 05:07:41 GMT, Chad Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
|wrote:
|> |
|> |
|> |When you create a tablespace in Oracle, is not the syntax:
|> |
|> |CREATE TABLESPACE <tablespace name>
|> |DATAFILE '<path to data file>'....
|> |
|> |What, exactly is the "datafile" if not a file, then?
|>
|>
|> And when that file is almost full, you add more tablespace by
|> telling Oracle about *another* *differnet* *file* that it can use.
|>
|> At that point, the "datafile" consists of 2 OS files.
|>
|> Repeat as necessary.
|
|Hmmm... not the way I do it. I use Autoextend and make sure
|that:
|a.) the db file is large enough to make autoextending rare
|b.) make the autoextend size large enough that it will prevent
| frequent extending
We have only needed to do this once. The initial size estimates were
a bit low ;)
<script snipped>
|(and then I'd create the index, but you get the point)
|
|Wouldn't having two files slow down performance?
|
|But then, I guess, if you're using Oracle on Linux,
|performance obviously isn't a concern.
Actually, this is running under Solaris on SPARC hardware.
|Especially if you were planning on having an 80GB db which
|would result in 40 db files at 2GB a piece!
|
|> Sorry I can't remember the exact commands involved. I did peer
|> over our DBA's shoulder while he did this once, but my notes
|> are at the office.
|
|I know what you're talking about, and I believe you, but that's
|not the optimal way to do things, it's more of a hack to get
|around the completely worthless Ext2 filesystem.
Well, this case is on Veritas vxfs, so that's not a concern.
You keep saying this about ext2. Do you have any specific problems
in mind, or do you just dislike it on principle? Pointers to independent
reviews/tests/etc wuld be nice.
--
Reverend Paul Colquhoun, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Universal Life Church http://andor.dropbear.id.au/~paulcol
-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-
xenaphobia: The fear of being beaten to a pulp by
a leather-clad, New Zealand woman.
------------------------------
From: "Nigel Feltham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,alt.linux.sucks
Subject: Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 22:48:32 -0000
>For the "You can change *everything* {if you know how}" - people, here is a
>tidbit, a lot of people don't even bother to change their color settings.
>That is how much Joe User want to be able to customize his workstation.
On the other hand, some users can become bored with default settings and
want to try something new - Our secretary at work knows very little about
computers (she types with 2 fingers) yet every day she seems to have a
different
colour scheme (she likes to play with these things when bored). Imagine the
fun
she could have if she could use a different window manager every day or even
just change theme on one window manager - even total newbies can work out
how to do these things if / when they want to.
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes (was: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split ...)
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 18:20:53 GMT
"Loren Petrich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Jim Richardson
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 05 Nov 2000 23:51:58 GMT,
> > Loren Petrich, in the persona of <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > brought forth the following words...:
>
> [taxation...]
> > > It's not confiscation, it's the law.
>
> > being the law doesn't stop it being confiscation, remember, the Jews were
sent
> > off to camps, *legally* according to the law of the time and place, as were
> > the
> > Japanese Americans in 1942. The Gulags in the old USSR were legal, according
> > to
> > their legal system.
>
> So what? You law-and-order types are always saying "the law is the
> law is the law", except for laws that you dislike.
1.) We support the law in a rule-of-law republic democracy like America and
other western democracies, not the law in totalitarian fascist regimes like
Nazi Germany
2.) I don't believe there was a "law" stating that the Japanese Americans should
be rounded up, in fact there were many court cases trying to get injunctions
from doing so. We're a republic run by people, and people make mistakes.
What
they did was illegal and I'm sure punishments were handed out. Things like
that
are not what make this country run, unlike Nazi Germany which was based
entirely on hate and oppression.
-Chad
------------------------------
From: "Nigel Feltham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,alt.linux.sucks
Subject: Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 22:54:53 -0000
>I can't tell. Reason is, KDE (and linux, for that matter) has *really*
lousy
>support for the languages I need.
>
But it does have support for users to implement their own languages. This is
why
a lot of china is using Linux / KDE - when a country have several variations
of a
language (think how many variations of chinese are spoken in china) and
commercial
operating systems support at most 1 or 2 of their languages and have no way
to add
support for a different language but another operating system is available
that is not only
free but has the ability to be simply extended to support every variation of
your country's
language then which operating system do you chose?
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
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