Linux-Advocacy Digest #420, Volume #30 Sat, 25 Nov 00 19:13:02 EST
Contents:
Re: Of course, there is a down side... ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Anyone have to use (*GAG*) Windows on the job? (Charlie Ebert)
Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever (mark)
Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever (mark)
Re: New to Linux, and I am not satisfied. ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: A Microsoft exodus! (Stefan Ohlsson)
Re: Of course, there is a down side... ("PLZI")
Re: New to Linux, and I am not satisfied. ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Anyone have to use (*GAG*) Windows on the job? (Donn Miller)
Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever (mark)
Re: KDE2 (mark)
Re: Of course, there is a down side... (mark)
Re: A Microsoft exodus! (Stefan Ohlsson)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Of course, there is a down side...
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 18:26:53 -0500
Chad Mulligan wrote:
>
> "Chris Lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:8v7jl9$6tl$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > In article <8v6e81$bju$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Ayende Rahien"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:CXwR5.370$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >>
> > >> "Charlie Ebert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > >> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >> > Organization: Self Reply-To: Charlie Ebert:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >> > Followup-To:
> > >> >
> > >> > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, The
> > >> > Ghost In The Machine wrote:
> > >> > >In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Joseph T. Adams
> > >> > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >> > > wrote
> > >> > >on 17 Nov 2000 00:52:50 GMT
> > >> > ><8v1vh2$7sc$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > >> > >>In comp.os.linux.advocacy Ayende Rahien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >> > >>wrote:
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >>: Oh, yes.
> > >> > >>: If Whistler is as good from 2K as 2K is from NT & 98, then
> > > Linux\Unix has
> > >> a
> > >> > >>: reason to be *really* afraid, and by the release of the system
> > > *after*
> > >> > >>: whistler, I wouldn't be surprise if those a minority even on the
> > > server.
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >>Even if Microsoft released a version of 'Blows that didn't blow, I
> > >> > >>still wouldn't use it, because:
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> (a) I don't willingly support criminal organizations, with my
> > >> > >> money
> > >> > >> or by any other means.
> > >> > >
> > >> > >I'm not sure this has been proven either way yet, although the
> > >> > >findings of fact were interesting.
> > >> > >
> > >> >
> > >> > #1. The Microsoft trial is OVER. They have been found guilty.
> > >>
> > >> By a judge of questionable motives and mind. He himself has claimed
> > >> that he'll be overturned, admitting his poor judgement.
> > >>
> > >> Just because a judge says you're quilty, doesn't necessarily mean
> > >> you're quilty.
> > >
> > > Um, didn't you mean to say guilty instead of quilty here? And I've to
> > > object to the last statement. If a judge rules that you are guilty, then
> > > you *are* guilty, that is what the word means. At least, that is what
> > > the word means in court. Whatever you actually did what you are accused
> > > is a whole different matter, of course.
> >
> > Even if Mcrosoft gets off in the US court, the EC is going to fry
> > them.....
>
> Wooo. There goes 1/100th of the world market.
You have ZERO grasp of world economics.
Europe has several times as many people as the US, and total
economy of WESTERN Europe alone is bigger than the US economy.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Charlie Ebert)
Subject: Re: Anyone have to use (*GAG*) Windows on the job?
Reply-To: Charlie Ebert:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 23:27:30 GMT
In article <HGUT5.25979$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Pete Goodwin wrote:
>
>I think you're muddling up Windows 95/98/ME with Windows NT/2000. The
>former is unstable, the latter isn't.
>
You've made statement that the X desktop at large is very crashy.
I've never felt that way. Further, you've made statement
that 98 and NT were less crashy than X.
Now there seems to be a distinction in your mind that 2000 is
stable and 98 and NT are junky.
I just find it interesting to see your opinion of things
'EVOLVE' over time Pete. Not picking on you but your
changing.
>
>Talk about over simplification. It's not the clipboard, per se, it's the
>GUI. It's way ahead of anything on Linux (though KDE2 is pretty close).
>
>Besides, OLE is an obsolete term. It's ActiveX nowadays.
>
Active X is going to be an obsolete term with their new release
comming up next year.
BTW - I noticed one bug in KDE2 whilst I was using it and
they came out with a series of upgrades over this last
month on Debian which seems to have made it disappear.
I think the KDE 2 is more FINAL now than it was.
And by that I'm meaning final 2.0 updates not the
beta release you have on that 7.2.
>--
>Pete, running KDE2 on Linux Mandrake 7.2
>
The thing I appreciate most about Linux and the X desktop
is the ability to pick a different manager if you want to.
I thought KDE2 was very nice but it's also very memory
consuming like 2000 is. i
It just seems to me you can get more done with Gnome
as there is less swapping going on. Also, it seems
that there is more functionality in Gnome for me
than the KDE2 has. KDE2 has the improved browser,
but little else really shines over Gnome for me.
Gnome slams KDE in the tools/toys department.
Charlie
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mark)
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 23:21:29 +0000
In article <8vpf36$5buf6$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Ayende Rahien wrote:
>
>"mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> In article <8vp23m$58vlq$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Ayende Rahien wrote:
>> >
>> >"mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>
>
>> >> The actions of a monopoly
>> >
>> >No, the actions of a company whose interest is in profit.
>> >It wasn't worth it to localize Windows, because most of the people could
>use
>> >the english version.
>>
>> No, the actions of a monopoly do not fail to co-incide with profit,
>> they exactly align. If pleasing a customer can be avoided, then
>> a monopoly will avoid doing it. Microsoft will try hard to avoid
>> that if they can.
>
>"It's the evil empire!" cries are getting tiresome.
A monopoly is a monopoly. It's not evil, it just is. Monopolies
have certain defining characteristics (I know, I've worked for
one). They have a very interesting attitude to their customer
base, and tend to view market segments in a far more abstract
way than most businesses (even large ones) do.
This is why monopolies can chase profit quite happily, whilst
completely avoiding providing what the customer *actually* wants.
>
>> I believe that some Government pressure in the
>> end caused them to change their minds.
>
>IIRC, it was that they were offered by Iceland goverment to get paid for
>doing the localization.
*Exactly* Nothing pressurises a monopoly more than cash.
Mark
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mark)
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 23:23:05 +0000
In article <8vpf2q$5buf6$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Ayende Rahien wrote:
>
>"mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Curtis wrote:
>> >mark wrote...
>> >> >He called me, asked for advice, I told him to search for the file in
>the
>> >> >registery, search in the cab dir on win98 for the file, and extract to
>the
>> >> >path.
>> >>
>> >> Ah, search the registry and then extract something from cab on win98.
>> >> Win98 on what, exactly?
>> >
>> >The Win98 installation CD.
>>
>> Oh dear, now there's a bugger, 'cos apparently, it was corrupted.
>
>You've multiply copies of the files on the cd.
>
>
Then the Win98 install wouldn't have failed, would it?
Mark
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: New to Linux, and I am not satisfied.
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 18:33:09 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> You Penguinista's have a difficult time reading for some reason.
> Maybe your eyes are worn out from reading all of those How-Not-To's.
>
> He said MENU BASED.
Goddamned waste of CPU cycles and bandwidth on the CPU and video busses.
Who the fuck wants a MENU for a simple activity that takes a
whole freaking 10 SECONDS to learn????
>
> claire
>
> On 22 Nov 2000 14:27:29 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
> wrote:
>
> >On Wed, 22 Nov 2000 02:10:09 -0700, Dan Hinojosa wrote:
> >>It was between Text Editor and xemacs....
> >
> >left mouse ->select
> >middle mouse -> paste
> >
> >should work with almost any application.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Stefan Ohlsson)
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: 26 Nov 2000 00:37:20 +0100
Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
>On Sat, 25 Nov 2000 15:10:19 +0100, Tore Lund wrote:
>>Are they? Alternatives like jkl;
>Not much different to hjkl. Also a reasonable choice, I guess. The only
>concern is this -- do all keyboards put ; in the same place ?
>
No, Swedish and Norwegian (at least) keyboard layouts puts the ; below
k and l.
>>or ji,l
>Nope, you really want them all in a line. If they're in a line, you can move
>around without having to move or contort your hand.
>
But why not j,i,k,l? Then the layout is much like the arrow-keys, but in
the main keyboard area, and unlike ji,l no contortions are needed.
/Stefan
--
[ Stefan Ohlsson ] � There will always be survivors - Robert A. Heinlein � []
------------------------------
From: "PLZI" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Of course, there is a down side...
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 23:33:28 GMT
"mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <jrWT5.209$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, PLZI wrote:
> >www.ietf.org propably will accept your donations, if you feel that you
have
> >to pay something. Like next time you post something here using the "not
real
> >open standard" NNTP.
>
> So you don't know what 'informational' actually means, then?
Gawd. Use the internet, Luke.
4.2.2 Informational
An "Informational" specification is published for the general
information of the Internet community, and does not represent an
Internet community consensus or recommendation. The Informational
designation is intended to provide for the timely publication of a
very broad range of responsible informational documents from many
sources, subject only to editorial considerations and to verification
that there has been adequate coordination with the standards process
(see section 4.2.3).
Specifications that have been prepared outside of the Internet
community and are not incorporated into the Internet Standards
Process by any of the provisions of section 10 may be published as
Informational RFCs, with the permission of the owner and the
concurrence of the RFC Editor.
> > > >(formerly X/Open) standard for PC and UNIX interoperability since 1992
> >> >(X/Open CAE Specification C209). "
> >>
> >> I didn't think X/Open was anything other than a manufacturer's
> >> consortium.
> >
> >Standard bodies usually are manufacturer consortiums. Try looking who runs
> >committees for telecommunication and broadcasting standards, for example.
>
> I was a rapportuer at the UN for 10 years doing ITU work for
> Telecommunications. I have personally managed and run the development
> and publication of several ITU M.2xxx series recommendations.
>
> The ITU is a Governmental body, *NOT* a manufacturer consortium.
>
> I have also had strong involvement with ETSI (the European
> standards body) - ie., attended meetings, contributed etc. Again,
> this is a governmental body *NOT* a manufacturer consortium.
You can find Ascom, Ericsson, Nokia, Nortel, Motorola, Lucent, Sun,
Mannesmann and Siemens in the ETSI board. Now tell me, that the GSM phone
manufacturers are not a part of it? (and yes, my company is there as well.)
Come on. The bodies may be straightforward, balanced, righteous and all
that - but still, the money comes from somewhere - and it is not
government/governments who pay for this.
> I think I have 10 years more experience in standards production
> than you have.
Be my guest. I'm not saying that the standard bodies are the Evil and
Invisible Empire of Manufacturers - but they are funded and run by them.
> I still want to know what the significance of 'informational'
> is.
> Do you know?
The quote from IETF is above.
> It has been pointed out that the CIFS information is very
> incomplete and merely documents what has already been reverse
> engineered. This suggests that 'informational' may mean
> or imply that the information is public domain. Or it might
> not. This seems a simple enough question.
The information inside the RFC is public domain. Never does it say that you
have to pay someone to use the information. Which was your original concern,
I presume.
(and the CIFS information is quite complete. It describes the protocol well -
the inner workings of W2K/AD is quite another matter all together. We can of
course start the discussion about the protocol not being the service
provided - but this is pointless. I could, for example, build a service run
with NNTP (say, it would trigger real-life events in some obscure system I
would have built around it) - but nobody could hold me responsible for not
publishing the source code for the service. NNTP would still be the same old
NNTP. Better yet, if the samba people claim that the CIFS is not "complete",
I of course could claim that Nokia has to publish the source code for their
phones - hey, they already use published GSM stardard, why won't they tell me
how the internals of the phone works? Let's see some circuit diagrams and
source code, right? After all, that is what the GSM standard is used for
primarily - transmission of human voice - so where's the electronics and
phone code? They are part of the process.)
- PLZI
- PLZI
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: New to Linux, and I am not satisfied.
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 18:42:52 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Only an idiot would post their real name on usenet.
>
> claire
Only COWARDS are afraid to stand behind their own words.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 18:44:39 -0500
From: Donn Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Anyone have to use (*GAG*) Windows on the job?
Charlie Ebert wrote:
> The thing I appreciate most about Linux and the X desktop
> is the ability to pick a different manager if you want to.
> I thought KDE2 was very nice but it's also very memory
> consuming like 2000 is. i
Yep -- lots of swapping going on with 64M RAM. With something like KDE2
or Win2k, I'd think something like 128M or greater would be required.
> It just seems to me you can get more done with Gnome
> as there is less swapping going on. Also, it seems
> that there is more functionality in Gnome for me
> than the KDE2 has. KDE2 has the improved browser,
> but little else really shines over Gnome for me.
Yes, KDE2's browser (Konqueror) is very good. It's also great if you
want to download files by DnD'ing. But, DnD is pretty much just a
luxury for me, as I find the default hilight/paste method in X to be
more than adequate. Also, I was disappointed that KDE2's taskbar could
not "swallow" apps like GNOME's could.
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mark)
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 23:34:35 +0000
In article <8vpf2i$5buf6$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Ayende Rahien wrote:
>
>"mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> In article <8vp23h$58vlq$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Ayende Rahien wrote:
>> >
>> >"mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> >> In article <8vnubl$4ujgg$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Ayende Rahien
>wrote:
>> >
>> >> The interesting question is 'with linux, how many times has
>> >> your /etc directory been rendered unusable?
>> >
>> >Five times, two power failure related, one with the system hanging so I'd
>to
>> >do a reset, one with 'rm -f', one when upgrading.
>> >That is just my personal experiance, you know. And I don't deal with
>linux
>> >extensively.
>>
>> I find this absolutely unbelievable. You are claiming the
>> complete and total destruction of a whole directory containing
>> 10s to 100s of files on the ext2 filesystem. Upgrading has
>> no impact on this filesystem at all - this is not windows!
>> rm -f suggests that you're not fit to be in charge of a
>> lawnmower, let alone a computer. (My 6 year old is allowed
>> to drive my mini tractor, he's safe with it).
>> Your claim to not deal with linux extensively is the _only_
>> thing in this post which rings true - the rest reads like,
>> well, fantasy, really.
>
>rm -f was indeed my fault, what is your point here?
You can hardly claim that you deleting hundreds of files
from a directory is any kind of weakness in a system design.
You could just as readily have deleted the windows registry.
>upgrading was also my fault, I choose server install in redhat 6 and it
>wiped my system.
I do not find this credible.
> (I used to do custom installs, and intended this to be a
>test to RH6 until I would decide if it was good enough to move to, which is
>why I didn't choose upgrade, I intended this to go to another HD, but choose
>to do a server install instead of custom one, and it wiped the system.
>Documented, but unwarned from.)
But I'm not a Redhat expert. I'll need to leave this to a
Rhat expert to let us know whether installing redhat can
'wipe the system'. This seems like another windowsism
to me.
>
>> Resets do not have this effect, nor do power failures. Please
>> provide more information about any of these claimed events.
>
>The HD didn't boot, fail to mount on linux systems, fail to be read on win
>ext2 readers.
No - this is not working for me. Are you saying that the master
boot record was corrupted? If so, that will affect any OS at all.
That is not a linux issue. It is *certainly* not an ext2 issue.
Even if that did happen, it is *extremely* unlikely that, armed
with a rescue disk, the ext2 partitions would not be fully
recoverable. I don't think you've any experience of this at
all.
>
>> >> The correct answer is probably never in the whole of the
>> >> history of space and time for a production machine, but
>> >> maybe if you look really hard, you might find one, somewhere,
>> >> but it seems very very unlikely.
>> >
>> >User & Admin mistakes, faulty programs, ignorance, power failures, hard
>> >drive failures... the list is endless.
>>
>> Admin mistakes? Ayende - where did you learn your trade?
>> Surely even MCSE can do better than this?
>
>If you think that an admin is beyond making mistakes...
>Well, we will leave it at that.
>Is that the
Mistakes which involve deleting all the files, powering
the system down .... No, the MCSEs I know are better than
this.
>
>> To make a complete directory structure unusable - no, even
>> Windows has never done that on me. Please provide some
>> credible evidence of these ludicrous claims.
>
>FAT & NTFS are indeed more robust than ext2 in this regard.
FAT certainly is not. NTFS I don't know much about.
Please provide evidence that this has happened.
Perhaps you could list the files in /etc which
were corrupted, that might help us here. (Although I
strongly suspect you can't because you don't know).
>
>> >> The registry is well renowned as a major weakness in the design of
>> >> windows.
>> >
>> >It takes a *lot* to corrupt the registery, usually a hard drive failure.
>> >Currupting the data *inside* the registry is another matter, and can
>cause
>> >system instability, just like putting invalid data in the files in the
>/etc
>> >dir.
>>
>> Err, text file damage is a minor problem - binary file damage is a
>> massive problem, especially if it happens close to the start of the
>> file.
>
>Please provide more information about any of these claimed events where the
>registry was damaged that badly.
I didn't claim an event - I said that damage to a binary file is
a massive problem, especially if it happens close to the start of
the file.
>
>> *That's* why the registry is a bad design decision making for a
>> weak OS.
>
>Please provide some credible evidence of these ludicrous claims.
>
>
Damage to eg., 1 or 2 bytes of a text file for one package in
/etc *might* at worst, stop eg., a daemon from running, or
might cause, eg., a package from being unable to start with
the correct defaults.
Damage of 1 or 2 bytes to a monolithic binary file can cause
the whole file to be unparsable; to achieve the same effect
in /etc., you'd have to damage *every* file in there, near
the start of the file *and* each package would have to have
non-sensible defaults compiled in (which they don't).
Mark
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mark)
Subject: Re: KDE2
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 23:37:18 +0000
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
A transfinite number of monkeys wrote:
>On Sat, 25 Nov 2000 11:42:26 -0800, matt newell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>: You are what I consider an idiot.
>
>You're certainly entitled to that opinion, however wrong it may be.
>
>: KDE2 has a very powerfull ability to use themes. Themes can make your system
>: look however you want. It even supports gtk themes so it can look just like
>: gnome if that is what you would like. You critisize KDE without even
>: exploring the options. What a shame.
Guys - please quit the GNOME/KDE thing. I want to be able to use
both, later, without cleaning up the blood!
Mark
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mark)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Of course, there is a down side...
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 23:39:48 +0000
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
>mark wrote:
>>
>> In article <8vovn1$59l4v$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Ayende Rahien wrote:
>> >
>> >"mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> >
>> >
>> >> No. The RFC is the 'final' name. Before that they're called
>> >> something like 'draft-do-me-this-protocol', then they later
>> >> become rfc9876.txt once they're 'approved'.
>> >>
>> >> My question was _much_ more subtle than that. What is the
>> >> difference between a real rfc and an 'informational' one. I
>> >> suspect its related to IP ownership (ip = intellectual
>> >> property here). I don't want to know whether someone thinks
>> >> that the IETF may or may not do something, I want to know what
>> >> they actually do.
>> >>
>> >> I do know that the ITU used to prevent owned IP becoming standards,
>> >> but then relaxed that position about 6 years ago. I know about
>> >> this because I was a UN rapporteur for about 10 years. That
>> >> experience, amongst other things, has left me very suspicious
>> >> about words which apparently add no value appearing in titles.
>> >> In the standards arena, they usually mean something important,
>> >> otherwise the editor of the document would have removed them.
>> >
>> >Thanks for the info, but, as another poster pointed out, it's really a moot
>> >point, as this is not the important part of what you need to know in order
>> >to copy the way windows does it, this has
>> >already been figured out.
>> >
>>
>> I still want to know what an 'Informational' rfc is. Does
>> anyone know?
>
>Something in place of a REAL, fully-documented RFC.
At last - thanks!
Mark
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Stefan Ohlsson)
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: 26 Nov 2000 00:50:21 +0100
The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
>To be fair, VMS had '.' as a filename delimiter, within brackets
>(e.g., DRA0:[PATH.TO.DIRECTORY]FILENAME.EXT;3),
>
Now _that_ is bizarre :o)
[...]
>Amiga uses ':' somewhat a la VMS, but otherwise
>uses '/', with the strange notion that '/' at the head of a
>pathname means "parent of current directory", not "root".
>(Not sure I care for that.)
>
Some additional info should anyone be interested;
The Amiga uses, as you said, the ':' in a VMS style like this:
DH0:Path/to/directory/filename.ext
Also, '/' does mean parent directory except for the first trailing slash.
"cd DH3:Games/Tetris/" goes to the Tetris directory, but
"cd DH3:Games/Tetris//" goes to the Games directory.
Additionally, ':' means "root" in the same sense as '/' at the head of a
path.
What about the Atari?
/Stefan
--
[ Stefan Ohlsson ] � There will always be survivors - Robert A. Heinlein � []
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