Linux-Advocacy Digest #452, Volume #30 Sun, 26 Nov 00 19:13:05 EST
Contents:
Re: C++ is very alive! (mlw)
Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever (Chris Ahlstrom)
Re: Uptime -- where is NT? (Giuliano Colla)
Re: Anyone have to use (*GAG*) Windows on the job? (Donovan Rebbechi)
Re: KDE2 ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Response to: MS Office sucks? So why is anyone using it? ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
C++ -- Our Industry... (Charlie Ebert)
Re: Anyone have to use (*GAG*) Windows on the job? ("Les Mikesell")
Re: The Sixth Sense ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: C++ is very alive!
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 18:19:17 -0500
"p@spamfree" wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, mlw says...
>
> >
> >It wasn't really a quiz, so much as just a small enumeration of things
> >that one should know.
> >
>
> I think you are confused by the same culture that equates spell checking
> quizes with intellegence.
>
> a good engineer or scientist, knows how research and find the details and
> techniques needed to solve a problem.
>
> If I have a sorting problem in front of me, I can very easily look up
> the references on sorting and refresh myself with the advantages and
> disadvantages of each, and choose the best one for the problem.
>
> smart people know where to search for information, they do not memorize it.
I fully understand your point and completely agree, but important
concepts are not something you can "look up" they are things you must
understand. This is the difference.
You can look up the formula for radio wavelength based on frequency, but
one must understand what this information means to make the antenna the
right length. I have to look in a book to remember how shell sort works,
but that does not mean I do not understand it.
Take for instance, qsort, my favorite example, one must understand how
it works to evaluate it correctly for an application.
I do not equate spelling with intelligence, a spell checker is my best
friend, but I do recognize the difference between spelling and the
ability to describe complex concepts. One can misspell words, but still
be able to form readable sentences.
Should someone not understand the differences between hash tables and
AVL trees? Both can be used for the same thing, but why would you use
one over the other?
How would you find the most important colors in a bitmap to create an 8
bit palette?
Understanding the basic principles of the problem help in finding the
right solution. If you don't understand the basics, you have no frame of
reference from which to start.
--
http://www.mohawksoft.com
------------------------------
From: Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 23:28:54 GMT
Ayende Rahien wrote:
>
> > What do you mean by this statement?
>
> That to the best of my knowledge, it's highly unrecommended to run linux on
> FAT partitions.
> I apologize for my english, it's not my first language.
No apology necessary.
I notice some subjective differences when Linux accesses a FAT
disk as opposed to an ext2 disk. But it's a nice way to share
files between the systems on a dual-boot machine, once you
get the permissions worked out, and get used to the quirks
of accessing DOS filenames using linux.
Chris
--
Now that's a whore of a different choler!
------------------------------
From: Giuliano Colla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Uptime -- where is NT?
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 23:29:55 GMT
"T. Max Devlin" wrote:
>
> Said Giuliano Colla in alt.destroy.microsoft on Sat, 25 Nov 2000
> [...]
> >Max, listen to me.
> >
> >I don't object on counters for continuity indicators. It's the simplest
> >and cleanest solution I can see. I'm well aware that a counter rolls
> >over to zero. It's the MS implementation what I object to.
> >
> >You have given the specs for the uptime: a 32 bit value, which is
> >incremented in units of one hundredth of second, or 10 ms if you prefer.
> >This allows for a continuous increment during 497 days and something,
> >then, as any binary value it will become all 1's, and at next increment
> >it will be all 0's. OK?
> >
> >That's what anybody would expect from such a specification, and that's
> >very simple and easy to deal with, if it's intended (as it is) as a
> >continuity indicator.
> >
> >Now look what NT does. It exposes a 32 bit value, which is incremented
> >in units of one hundredth of a second, as per specs, but when it reaches
> >a value 10 times smaller than the all 1's value (i.e. after 49.7 days,
> >instead 497) it goes back to zero. To be exact, when it reaches the
> >binary value 11001100110011001100110011001 it goes back to zero. It's
> >not a binary counter rolling over to zero!
> >
> >If you provide a 3 digit decimal counter as a continuity indicator, you
> >think that after 999 it will roll over to 000. But you'd never expect it
> >to go back to 000 after, say 191![...]
>
> Holy shit. All this time, I figured I was the one dropping a zero, or
> one or the other was thousandths. See how that works? You start
> thinking you're reasonably smart, and then you find you can't keep the
> simplest details straight.
>
> Well, heck, thanks for the tutorial, Giuliano. That's killer. I guess
> I was just giving a certain party the benefit of the doubt, without much
> cause. Holy...
>
> No wonder I missed it. Its just so ludicrous.
>
> WHY? I'm not going to be able to think until I figure out why! HOW?
> for that matter. HOW?
>
You see? Even the fiercest fighter against MS monopoly finds sometimes
difficult just to consider that they could have done such a crappy thing
as they've done!
As of how and why, two choices are available: incompetence (one point
for me) or sabotage for monopolistic purposes (one point for you).
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
Subject: Re: Anyone have to use (*GAG*) Windows on the job?
Date: 26 Nov 2000 23:29:59 GMT
On Sun, 26 Nov 2000 20:56:26 GMT, Mike wrote:
>
>"Donovan Rebbechi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>I don't have any idea what you're trying to say. Donn said LaTex. I said not
>viable. You said HTML or RTF. I said HTML isn't viable, and RTF isn't like
>LaTex: it's not a practical language to write a document in. Things like
What I am trying to say is that Word is not much good for writing
documents in, and you don't really gain a great deal on something
like RTF or HTML.
>equations, tables, footnotes, and other stuff were examples to show the
>impracticality of HTML and RTF.
Word does not handle all these things very well either. Therefore
Word is impractical. Therefore the fact that Word is unavailable for
Linux is a stuypid reason not to use it.
>Now you say that HTML can be read by word processors, and apply blanket
>statements about word processors not being able to do the things I
>mentioned. I'm not sure where this fits in, or what it has to do with the
>discussion.
Where it "fits in" is that you are overstating what "word processors"
can do to make it sound like they are essential applications when in
fact they are not. Word processors are tools for PHBs who lack the
skills necessary to use real publishing software.
>All I can say is to reiterate that HTML is not a viable language for word
>processing,
What is "word processing" anyway ?
--
Donovan Rebbechi * http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/ *
elflord at panix dot com
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: KDE2
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 18:41:21 -0500
Donn Miller wrote:
>
> The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
>
> > How cartoony does Win2k look? :-)
>
> How cartoony does Bill Gates look? I think he looks like that Mad
> magazine guy. :-) Ok, I apologize. The Mad magazine guy is a little
> cooler than that.
Alfred E. Neumann.
Actually, the archetype for this face has been documented to exist
as far back as the mid-1800's. [This came out as various people
tried to sue Mad for copyright infringement....Mad went to court
and merely pointed out the large number of parties all claiming
that *their* ancestor had originally drawn the character as
proof that the image had actually been public domain for close
to a century, if not more].
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Response to: MS Office sucks? So why is anyone using it?
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 18:42:15 -0500
Adam Warner wrote:
>
> Hi Mark,
>
> > Is it just me, or do I read 'we don't believe the time is ripe'
> > followed by ' already implementing'.
> >
> > This seems to lack credibility.
>
> I don't believe I lack credibility. One of the URLs stated "we don't believe
> the time is ripe". I thought that comment by a University might interest
> people, that's all. If I was just trying to push one viewpoint I wouldn't
> have included it at all!
>
> > I don't believe that universities will go this way without Microsoft
> > giving them vast amounts of kit & software.
>
> Do you mean it won't happen or it will? Microsoft is quite capable of
> helping large institutions implement Microsoft solutions.
^^^^^^^^^
pollutions.
>
> I posted those University of Auckland URLs because I have a close
> association with them (number of degrees, research work) (and the links were
> available on Goggle by the way). If you check out the Word document URL I
> posted you will see it states that the U of A is intending to have
> large-scale student systems using Active Directory by 1 January 2001, and
> all systems using it through 2001.
>
> That's a pretty impressive implementation rate for a Microsoft technology
> that only came out of beta this year with the release of Windows 2000.
>
> So there you go. How internationally widespead this is I'm not sure. But I
> found it easy to find info about other Universities that are also planning
> the implementation of Active Directory.
>
> Regards,
> Adam Warner
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Charlie Ebert)
Subject: C++ -- Our Industry...
Reply-To: Charlie Ebert:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 23:46:18 GMT
After having been thru the C++ thread I started, I got
real mad!!!
I wasn't mad at anybody I debated with. It caused me to
think about the entire development process here...
It happened when I started viewing job ad's from other
towns. In my area, Cobol and the mainframe are predominate
with a smattering of VB jobs and web jobs here and there.
If you take a look at east and west coast newpapers
you find more C++ jobs there. I'd have to say they
are about tied with VB and Cobol in quantity of ad's.
What made me really mad wasn't that other area's had
the C++ jobs. It was the bullshit which was being
spouted off here in my local area by local developers!
We're modern, join us doing VB! VB is bullshit!
You might have a debate about the usefullness of C++
but VB is definitely bullshit!
The VB developers claim to be industry models for
contemporary software development. The future is
VB! This is their rallying cry.
So some dumbass company comes up with a few VB apps
to run on the internet and all of a sudden they've
become industry leaders!
That just makes me sick. Doesn't it you?
The point is how can you be an industry LEADER if
your just another class clown FOLLOWER! Every company
of small size is doing some VB development.
And VB sucks. It's not even a language. It will
never be forced to meet some standards committee.
There are no standards for VB as it's a Microsoft
ONLY show!
I pity the dumb bastard who writes VB. I really do.
They don't know what being an industry leader is
all about! You don't be an industry leader by
following Microsoft around. Since when does following
Microsoft around like a lost puppy dog qualify you
as being an industry leader????
The term "INDUSTRY LEADER" is just as interesting
as the term "SOFTWARE ENGINEER". But it's much
more vague and meaningless when they use it in
conjunction with the words "VISUAL BASIC".
I can respect a person who codes in C or C++ or
even the many COBOL's out there. I can respect
a person who writes in JAVA. I can respect a
person who writes in ADA. I think these people,
not inclusive, are our "INDUSTRY LEADERS".
I have NEVER FELT that the title of "INDUSTRY LEADER"
should go to any company with any product being
produced by Visual Basic because there are
10's of thousands of them all doing the same thing.
Where is the leadership of the industry in pushing
a set of tools 10,000 other companies have around
a palet and writing a little sloppy code behind them.
It's almost hideous to consider that VB is currently
the #1 choice development tool for Windows users.
Saying that using "Visual Basic" at your company makes
US an "INDUSTRY LEADER" is very much akin to saying,
"I'M A LEADER IN THE FIGHT FOR THE ENVIRONMENT" for using
recycled toilet paper to whipe!!!! Point being, "VISUAL
BASIC" is as much of a computer language in reality as
"recycled toilet paper" exists on store shelves.
It's functionally as funny as reading all those ad's from
the early 90's where people were trying to hire FOX PRO
PROGRAMMERS. I actually did a job for an attorney firm
who was using FOX PRO during those days. One of the
attorney's was a neighbor of ours and I asked him
after he did the job, why didn't you just run an ad
looking for somebody who might know something about
FOX PRO instead of demanding they have FOX PRO experience!
The answer was they only wanted somebody with FOX PRO experience.
Then I asked him, why did you want me to come over and help you?
I fixed your problem and I don't have any FOX PRO experience!
The answer was, I knew you worked on mainframes and I trusted
you to try and fix it and you did. Then I asked again,
why did you run an AD looking for people with FOX PRO experience?
Were you expecting a large number of people from the area to
come forth with their experience and fill this job?
I never got a good answer from the guy, Attorney's are great
at not answering questions.
Microsoft has it's own little world of shit out there.
It's a shame that idiots nationwide are spending
millions of the shareholders money chasing loonacy.
Bottom line! If the area of software expertise you
are investigating is not supported across multiple
platforms, then quit investigating it. You've hit
a NON-ARTFORM!
Everybody looks at Microsoft as if they were FORD motor
company! Well, last year I had a pinto and now I'm
going for that big diesel duelie over there!
NO! You can't just start up your own high tech
company just because you bought a bunch of Microsoft
shit! Sorry! It don't work that way!
I'll say something else which might make you mad
but it would be true. The typical WEB "engineer" you
get out of your local ISP with limited VB experience
is not your PRIME CANDIDATE to be project lead on
your next greatest adventure. Yet this is happening
EVERYWHERE.
In my company, we just cancelled a 6 million dollar project
and set the company back several years as the VB development
crew they hired didn't develop software for a living.
3 years and 6 million down the drain. The customer complaints
were so severe they had little choice.
This was MY company! The company I work for!
This is what is wrong with Microsoft! They give
you the DREAM and leave it up to you to see if you
can finish it. It's just not he same structured
philosophy we had comming from mainframe land.
What I'm trying to say here is if your reading this
and your thinking of starting up a Microsoft shop
with VB being your core enterprise tool, then THINK AGAIN!
Who are you going to hire to man the guns colonel!
Funny how they require 6 years of COBOL experience before
you can even be CONSIDERED for a job in my company YET,
if you know VB your word is just great with them.
THIS IS WHAT IS FUCKING WRONG PEOPLE!
DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT I'M SAYING HERE!
IT'S FUCKING WRONG PEOPLE!
Charlie
------------------------------
From: "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Anyone have to use (*GAG*) Windows on the job?
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 00:04:07 GMT
"Pete Goodwin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:DEgU5.4513$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> mark wrote:
>
> > Now, I wonder that lockup tight means? We know that a KDE app
> > _might_ cause a KDE problem. We know that KDE _might_ cause an
> > X problem. We know that an X problem will not stop the machine.
>
> I mean the whole machine hung, from KDE, to X, to Linux itself. I couldn't
> even login remotely.
I've seen this a time or two, but not recently. X basically has direct
access to hardware through its video driver, so a bug there can hang
the machine - be sure you are using the latest, and the best match for
your card. Also, I suspect there is still some race condition lingering
between gpm and X in dealing with the mouse even though that is
supposed to be fixed now. If you don't use the mouse when you aren't
in X it can't hurt to remove the gpm startup from your rc.d directories.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: The Sixth Sense
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 19:08:43 -0500
Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>
> Curtis wrote:
> >
> > With a Linux system, outfitted with KDE and running similarly capable X-
> > apps and services, you're looking at pretty hefty resource requirements
> > as well.
>
> Not sure. I use Gnome and Sawfish (since Enlightenment has bloated
> into a gaudy monstrosity lately), and generally never have to wait for
> disk thrashing. And the command line is incredibly more responsive.
> When you select a new window in linux while a task is churning away
> in the background, it comes right up, unlike in NT or 2000. I boot
> to Linux on my main machine, most often, because it's just more
> pleasant to use. Your mileage will vary.
>
> On my 72 Mb server (what the heck, I found an 8MB chip laying around),
> with a 166MHz Cyrix chip, and having Linux running all sorts
> of crap, including Samba, still works well when
> I logon (using X) as myself, to do stuff. Certainly
> an order of magnitude faster than Win98! Right next to this box
> I have an old 32 MB laptop with a P-166, running NT 4.0 with SP4.
> Slow as dog meat, though, surprisingly, not as bad as my daughter's
> Win98 machine on 64 Mb P-166.
>
> Now if I could only get some Sun hardware in here, for more comparisons.
> However, my wife thinks that is taking at-home learning just a little
> toooooooo far.
Get a used "pizza-box" Sun system. Couple hundred dollars.
Make sure you get a set of Solaris install disks with it.
>
> Chris
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
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