Linux-Advocacy Digest #496, Volume #30 Tue, 28 Nov 00 12:13:06 EST
Contents:
Re: Mandrake 7.2 Quick Review ("Frank Van Damme")
Re: Whistler review. (Josiah Fizer)
Re: Ok, putting money where my mouth is... (Mav)
Re: Ok, putting money where my mouth is... ("Frank Van Damme")
Re: Linux for nitwits ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Response to: MS Office sucks? So why is anyone using it? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Linux for nitwits ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever (T. Max Devlin)
Re: The Sixth Sense (T. Max Devlin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Frank Van Damme" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Mandrake 7.2 Quick Review
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 17:08:36 +0000
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Jacques Guy"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Frank Van Damme <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Claire, mijn minne! Bent U nu in Leuven? (I know, my Flemish is rotten
> -- but, as someone told me once: "At least you try")
Claire mag dan vele nick's hebben, van _mijn_ naam blijft ze/hij af.
--
Never underestimate the power of Linux-Mandrake
7.2 on an AMD K7 800 / 128.
------------------------------
From: Josiah Fizer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Whistler review.
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 08:18:09 -0800
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Ayende Rahien wrote:
> "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Matthew Soltysiak wrote:
> > >
> > > Aaron, get a life. The guy likes Whislter, so be it. Leave him alone.
> In fact, i like
> > > it too. My eng. buddies and I love it. Beats the hell outta Linux for
> usability. Take a
> > > look a KDE2, ultimate bug shit edition. GNOME, ultimate bloat-ware and
> bug shit
> > > edition. Both segfault quite frequently. So, what does this say about
> Whislter?
> >
> > KDE and GNOME say nothing about Whistler.
>
> Correct, but one has to wonder, due to Aaron's constant nagging about
> Windows not getting features that Unix had ages ago (his words, or at least
> his meaning), why did Unix & Linux, so far, have been unable to produce a
> good GUI system.
> Apple had it for how long, 17 years?
While it may just be me. I find the GUI in IRIX (OpenMagic) to be far better
then the Mac or Windows UI and light years ahead of anything I've found on
Linux.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc
From: Mav <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Ok, putting money where my mouth is...
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 15:53:22 GMT
Mike Raeder wrote:
>
> Frank Van Damme wrote:
>
> > One remark: Tux was never meant to be taken serious. It reflects the
> > character of the linux community: just a stupid picture, don't think too
> > much about it, it's part of the fun. Your penguinos look good, very good,
> > but they're too serious. Does making your penguins humorous sound like
> > rape?
>
> I'm waiting for someone to do a Japanese Anime Tux!
> --
> My Australian Shepherd is smarter than your honour student
My honour student IS an Australian Shepherd... ;-)
Mav
------------------------------
From: "Frank Van Damme" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Ok, putting money where my mouth is...
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 17:20:04 +0000
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Robert Kiesling"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> No, but that's beside the point here. The point is that criticiszing a
> dumb symbol like a penguin or a daemon or whatever has nothing to do
> with the OS or its development. It's simply a bunch of greasy-fingered
> cretins trying to grab part of the "action."
No, it wasn't the point. But you're right, of course: a good os with dumb
artworks is still better than an all-grey-gui on top of a crap os (no
names).
But why not try to improve the graphics? If it doesn't interest you, so
be it. Some people are good at programming, some are good at drawing,
making icons and photo's for wallpapers and so on, others translate
documentation.
--
Never underestimate the power of Linux-Mandrake
7.2 on an AMD K7 800 / 128.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Linux for nitwits
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 16:07:10 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
bobh{at}haucks{dot}org wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Nov 2000 17:31:38 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >I just mentioned it because it does resemble a certain
> >GUI found in Win9x/2k/NT. I personally use it on my
> >laptop only because I wanted the clock and other buttons
> >at the bottom which aren't available in the conventional
> >FVWM2 (though you are free to tell me how to *add* them
>
> For a very lightweight window manager that has a clock
> at the bottom of the screen, multiple workspaces, and
> kde compatibility, you might want to look at Blackbox.
>
> http://blackbox.alug.org/
The trouble with migrating to other window managers is that,
as a new convert to Linux, I don't automagically know how
to switch to the new window manager after having installed
it, and the documentation seems to think you should already
know how to do this so they don't tell you. Slackware's
xap1 "disk series" automagically sets everything so that
the FVWM95 hack is used in place of the default FVWM2, and
I haven't managed to do anything in changing window managers
other than require a complete re-install of Slackware.
In fact, actually doing more than changing the pretty
colors or altering the theme is not something the Linux
community feels the need to write documentation for. Want
to alter the "Start" menu in any of the Window Managers?
Forget it. They might have a utility that purports to add
new elements to the "Start" menu, but you invariably do not
have the complete control over the "Start" menu that
Windoze provides...unless you text edit cryptic config
files...which conveniently lack any kind of documentation
as to what all the variables and values mean.
I think that there needs to be a standard--sigh--like
Windoze--double sigh--which allows one to create a
standard Window Manager menu directory and then create
subdirectories beneath it with symbolic links,
remarkably similar to the Windoze model. This standard
Window Manager menu structure would then be the defacto
standard method for all Window Managers (cryptic scripts
being the second method for systems which are very short
on hard drive inode space, though such systems are
quickly becoming the exception rather than the rule).
The Windoze OS may crash on an hourly basis, but even
complete newbies to Windoze can create a "shortcut" and
put it into the Windoze "Start" menu without having a
two week learning curve!
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Response to: MS Office sucks? So why is anyone using it?
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 11:34:47 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Adam Warner in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Sun, 26 Nov 2000 22:20:29
[...]
>> I don't believe that universities will go this way without Microsoft
>> giving them vast amounts of kit & software.
>
>Do you mean it won't happen or it will? Microsoft is quite capable of
>helping large institutions implement Microsoft solutions.
>
>I posted those University of Auckland URLs because I have a close
>association with them (number of degrees, research work) (and the links were
>available on Goggle by the way). If you check out the Word document URL I
>posted you will see it states that the U of A is intending to have
>large-scale student systems using Active Directory by 1 January 2001, and
>all systems using it through 2001.
>
>That's a pretty impressive implementation rate for a Microsoft technology
>that only came out of beta this year with the release of Windows 2000.
>
>So there you go. How internationally widespead this is I'm not sure. But I
>found it easy to find info about other Universities that are also planning
>the implementation of Active Directory.
I would bet money that the reason you find these announcements is
because Universities were forced to announce and plan their lock-in
migration in order to get free W2K servers. MS always gives good
bennies (an offer you can't refuse, in fact) to those who announce
they'll use MS products.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
http://www2.PetitionOnline.com/dejanews/petition.html
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 11:34:51 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Ayende Rahien in alt.destroy.microsoft on Mon, 27 Nov 2000 02:07:52
[...]
>T. Max, no offence meant, but you see "Windows sucks" in everything.
No offense taken, Ayende. You thought maybe I wasn't aware of this?
It's not me, though. It is simply that Windows is in everything, and
Windows sucks, so...
>The CD software *might* need to read/write some parts of the registry that
>are inaccessible to normal users, that I can understand.
>But that the dialer uses it?
>The *only* thing that it uses the registry for is to store it settings,
>which are quite user spesific.
And once again, I must point out that this is a problem, therefore, with
Windows. I had several programs a few years ago in Unix that "needed"
to be run as root (management software). I found out why, changed some
permissions, and got rid of the problem, for those I could. For those I
couldn't, the vendor did the same. Note that the OS never entered into
it. In Windows, that doesn't happen.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
http://www2.PetitionOnline.com/dejanews/petition.html
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 11:34:53 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Erik Funkenbusch in alt.destroy.microsoft on Sun, 26 Nov 2000
>"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> Said Ayende Rahien in alt.destroy.microsoft on Sat, 25 Nov 2000 23:11:36
>> [...remarking on W2K compatibility, I believe...]
>> >There are all too many application that are written by lazy/idiot
>> >programmers which assume 95/98/ME and full access to the registery.
>> >There are ways to make them work, but I usually dump those that force me
>to
>> >mess around with the registery security settings.
>>
>> And I'll bet it never occurs to you to blame Microsoft for all that time
>> you have to spend sorting this out.
>
>Huh? That's like blaming the Linux kernel developers for Linux applications
>that assume you're running as root.
No, it isn't, because the entirety of the Linux kernel developers'
efforts are available to me, or anyone I wish to hire, to sort out the
problem. As I just pointed out to Ayende, who's also having problems
grasping this concept, it simply comes down to the fact that Windows is
a monopoly (proprietary, single-source) while Unix and Linux are not.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
http://www2.PetitionOnline.com/dejanews/petition.html
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 11:34:55 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Ayende Rahien in alt.destroy.microsoft on Mon, 27 Nov 2000 05:05:24
>"Chris Ahlstrom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>> >
>> > "T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> > > Said Ayende Rahien in alt.destroy.microsoft on Sat, 25 Nov 2000
>23:11:36
>> > > [...remarking on W2K compatibility, I believe...]
>> > > >There are all too many application that are written by lazy/idiot
>> > > >programmers which assume 95/98/ME and full access to the registery.
>> > > >There are ways to make them work, but I usually dump those that force
>me
>> > to
>> > > >mess around with the registery security settings.
>> > >
>> > > And I'll bet it never occurs to you to blame Microsoft for all that
>time
>> > > you have to spend sorting this out.
>> >
>> > Huh? That's like blaming the Linux kernel developers for Linux
>applications
>> > that assume you're running as root.
>>
>> On the other hand, Microsoft makes big noise about how
>> intuitive and simple its OS is compared to others.
>
>What does the cow has to do with the eagle?
>
>You are confusing totally different subjects here, are you even aware of
>that?
Actually, he's not, and that is the problem you are having understanding
the argument. Microsoft wishes to take credit for the wonders of their
platform, but has no responsibility, according to you and them, to make
sure it works. The Linux kernel developers would, I'm sure, have no
problems helping an app or driver developer make sure their product
works correctly, and would modify said kernel if it was shown that the
problem was on their side. With Microsoft, none of the problems are
*ever* on their side, so why should it escape our notice that they wish
to have all of the benefits on their side?
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
http://www2.PetitionOnline.com/dejanews/petition.html
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 11:34:57 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Curtis in alt.destroy.microsoft on Sun, 26 Nov 2000 13:59:44 -0500;
>T. Max Devlin wrote...
>> >Win2k irons out a lot of the hangups I had with NT. I installed it in
>> >January and am yet to experienced a system lockup or BSOD. Do I need
>> >better stability that this for my purposes?
>>
>> But since in many people's opinion W2K is not at all superior to OS/2,
>
>And I can say quite the opposite.
Sure, you can. You'd be wrong, but you can say it.
>In many people's opinion Win2k is
>superior to OS/2. You need to speak to some ex-OS/2 users or hang out in
>OS/2 related newsgroups. While OS/2 has not really not undergone any
>significant improvement since 1996, WinNT has been very significantly
>enhanced in it's new version.
Which is to say its not as entirely broken as it was in 1996. OS/2
wasn't broken to start. I'm not going for a popularity contest here.
In the opinion of the people I respect for their technical understanding
of operating systems, OS/2 is a very good OS. W2K, unfortunately, is
monopoly crapware. There's little chance at all that it could be
considered superior to OS/2 by any one who knew what they were talking
about. Maybe MacOS.
>> let alone Linux, I submit that the real reason you are back in the MS
>> fold is because your choice of OSes has little to do with the quality of
>> the OS, but the application and industry support for that OS.
>
>In my initial transition, yes this is so. I missed OS/2 as an OS while
>using NT4. But yes, better application and industry support, as well as
>comparable stability to OS/2 made me decide to change. It was a painful
>but necessary transition at the time, yes. I was all too aware why I had
>to be changing, just as I was well aware of why I changed from Win9x to
>OS/2. BTW, the NT license at the time was a gift. That had a lot to do
>with my even installing NT at the time and discovering it's decent
>stability as a desktop OS.
And yet it escaped you, apparently, that Microsoft was engaging in
criminal activity in order to bring about this 'painful' situation.
Stop getting pissed at me because you weren't aware of that.
>> This
>> would seem to indicate that, had NT never been available and led to W2K,
>> the "upgrades" of Win9x would have bested OS/2 in just the same way that
>> the VMS-style software did.
>
>This is where you're very wrong. It took a valiant, strong swim upstream
>to migrate from Win9x to OS/2 considering that I don't live in the US
>where it's easier to obtain what you desire when it's not what's offered
>in the mainstream. [...]
Actually, I would say the only reason you ever used OS/2 is because you
weren't in the US. It was much more widely supported outside the
states, back before MS re-applied themselves to preventing competition
in foreign markets.
>The algorithm I use to chose my OS is:
>
>1) First the OS must be stable and reliable. [...]
In your experience, or in reality. Because while your experience might
be that you had problems with OS/2, and that you haven't with W2K, there
is no way that W2K can be referred to sa a "stable and reliable" OS.
>2) Application support is my next requirement. [...]
But if there is not free market competition to prove '1', then '2' is
simply a "go along with the monopoly" strategy. Besides, AFAIK, all
operating systems support applications. ;-)
>3) If the OS's being considered satisfy my application and stability
>requirements, then I'll pick the technically superior OS. Unfortunately,
>because of the Windows monopoly, that situation doesn't exist for most
>who wish to run an OS as a desktop user.
Indeed. It makes '2' and '1' and '4' little more than an empty charade,
as well.
>4) Hardware support and ease of administration. I'm most flexible with
>putting up with shortcomings here.
>
>5) Finally, cost. This is of least relevance. I'm willing to pay for the
>solution I'm most comfortable with.
>
>Going through that process and choosing Win2k is rather different from
>going in the nearest computer outlet and buying a machine outfitted with
>Win9x, not knowing about alternatives or what they have to offer.
Yes, you had to be duped, in order to buy W2K.
>If you don't consider it qualitatively any different, then fine. You're
>free to think the contrary. I see it as different because I spent $150+
>to be running Win2k and not merely running Win9x.
Sucker.
[...]
>> >Their is cost and there is cost. Speaking only in terms of dollars and
>> >cents is limited.
>>
>> Trying to ignore the huge, in fact infinite, difference in terms of
>> dollars and cents is nonsensical.
>
>That's what I said.
No, it is not. You said speaking in terms of dollars and cents is
limited; I said it was nonsensical. Anyone who *bought* W2K obviously
doesn't really have any conception of the value or cost of an OS, I'm
afraid.
[...]
>> >> As for whether they hear that another OS which will run their apps more
>> >> stably exist, you seem to propose that the applications predated the
>> >> operating system in the users experience.
>> >
>> >No, what would make you think that?
>>
>> Your statements, obviously. You stated that adopting anything but MS is
>> hampered by "their apps" running only on Windows.
>
>That's what you understood from what I said. That's not what I meant.
Which is to say it is not what you wanted me to understand from what you
said.
>Read again and see if you can extract a different meaning.
I could, but it doesn't contradict the understanding I've already
described. Your desires aside, the statement is an accurate description
of your position, and consistent with what you intended to say, and for
practical purposes is far more important than what you "meant".
[...]
>I've been down that road before Max. Don't ignore it. I used OS/2 for
>close to two years. I ran apps that most have never heard of. I'm willing
>to run those other apps if I like running them and they provide the
>functionality I desire.
...and you can surmount the difficulty of trying to avoid a monopoly...
[...]
>> ><Yawn> Knock yourself out. :=)
>>
>> I got a better idea. Why don't you just shut up, or go away, if you
>> don't have anything to say, OK?
>
>Feh! LOL!
>
>With all due respect (which doesn't amount to much at this juncture), why
>don't you just hold to your corner as you should?
What on earth are you talking about?
>We have equal right to
>post in this group.
No, we have equal right to *contribute* to this group. Your
passive-aggressive responses don't constitute any kind of valid
discussion, let alone a reasonable argument, so your "rights" are not an
issue; merely your ability.
>Please don't ask me to go away again. You've
>overstepped your bounds there buster. You like throwing your 'smelly'
>weight around don't you?
Not at all. I'd prefer if people contributed to the discussion in a
rational manner. Its difficult to do, I know, while defending
Microsoft, as that isn't a rational thing to do, but I'm willing to
settle for civil. I'd much prefer invective and foul language to
passive aggressive smilies.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
http://www2.PetitionOnline.com/dejanews/petition.html
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Linux for nitwits
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 16:15:11 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Glitch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > Laptop drives don't use the standard 40pin
> > > IDE cable that desktops use so your idea
> > > won't work.
> >
> > I'm sorry, I was under the impression I was talking
> > to technical people. From a local computer store
> > for $10US, I purchased a kit which was labeled
I bet that these are available mail-order for those
of you who live far away from "local" computer stores
that might carry this product, or at least far away
from stores that charge a fair price. The chain
stores tend to charge outrageous prices, like $20US
for a printer cable when a more "local" or mail-order
establishment will charge $7-$10US for the same cable.
> > "Mount 2.5" laptop hard drive in a 3.5" drive bay".
> > This included an ADAPTER which allows you to adapt
> > the standard 2.5" pinout to the standard 40-pin
> > IDE cable. The power connector for the 2.5" drive
> > is included in its pinout, and the ADAPTER contains
> > a plug and wires to send power to the right pins on
> > the 2.5" pinout.
> >
> > Thus I was able to install Linux onto the old 540MB
> > drive and use it in a conventional desktop, but
> > for fun I tried it out in the old laptop, and it
> > booted up just fine.
>
> ok, u got me there.
Yeah, I've found the best response to something I
think is impossible is not "that can't work", but
rather, "exactly how did you do that?"
Either I find out that it was all the person's
delusions and it really is impossible, or I find out
how to do something new. Either way, I avoid looking
like a complete git.
====================
WILLIAM GATES
<anagrams to>
I AM A SWELL GIT
W
I
LL
I
AM
G
A
T
E
S
====================
> > > What I did when my sony laptop didn't have a
> > > built-in cdrom was use a boot floppy and install
> > > linux over my LAN using my 2nd desktop as an NFS
> > > server.
> >
> > What network card? SLIP? PLIP? Parallel Pocket
> > Network Adapter? You're leaving out the details
> > the technical people like myself CRAVE.
>
> ok ok, down boy.
>
> There is an NE2000 compatible card in the NFS server
> using the ne2k-pci driver I believe. It's identified
> as a Realtek 8029. B/c of that I can't ever remember
> if it actually uses the ne2k-pci driver or the
> realtek driver. Anyway, I was using CAT5 cable over
> to my laptop which was using the eepro100 driver for
> the built-in Intel chipset of the ethernet.
Built in Ethernet? You lucky bastard. :)
> I loaded the eepro100 module from the Suse modules
> disk and it worked flawlessly. After that I followed
> the instructions and continued on with the install
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 11:35:00 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Ayende Rahien in alt.destroy.microsoft on Mon, 27 Nov 2000 02:19:11
[...]
>IIRC, Iceland is roughly 500K.
>Most of them speak english quite well.
>There was no *need* for localize version.
>Localise version would sell, but it wouldn't sell enough to return the
>invesment.
I would think whether there is a "need" is up to the consumers, not the
producers, wouldn't you? And what is the precise cost of localization,
BTW. You certainly can't be presuming whether or not it would make a
return on the investment if you don't know what the investment is, do
you?
>MS would get X money from selling the english version on windows in iceland.
Ah, yes. "X" money. That's quite a lot, isn't it?
>It would've to invest Y money in order localise windows.
>Z is the expected profit from the localise version which wouldn't go to the
>english verison.
>As long as z<y, you don't localize.
Given that your goal is to ensure everyone uses Windows, rather than
whether Windows is attractive to everyone. The missing number you are
avoiding is 'A', the number of people who wouldn't choose Windows if
there were commercially acceptable alternatives, regardless of whether
it is English or localized. Since this number is unknown, you haven't
any validity to any of the rest.
[...]
>> What difference at all does that make? Does a producer base its
>> decision on what to invest in on whether it will increase their sales,
>> or whether it will "cover" a particular victim/consumer? Wouldn't
>> whether Icelanders would buy a non-english version be the question,
>> rather than whether they can use an english version? Is MS trying to
>> increase their sales, or are they trying to monopolize the market? You
>> tell me.
>
>See above.
Care to try again?
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
http://www2.PetitionOnline.com/dejanews/petition.html
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: The Sixth Sense
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 11:35:05 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Les Mikesell in alt.destroy.microsoft on Sun, 26 Nov 2000 20:21:52
>"Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:8vqvra$5f036$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>>
>>
>> > I gave a quick test (under linux) of beta's. Until PR3 they were just
>> > for fun. PR3 appeared to be a reasonable beta (a little buggy, something
>> > not implemented, but usable).
>> > You may have different behavior under Windows, because the application
>> > must handle a lot of issues which under Unix are handled by OS.
>>
>> Probably, but after the disappotment 4 was, I'm not sure if I'll try it
>> until it's tested thourghfully.
>
>My windows version of Netscape 6 (release) has never run. It always
>crashes with a DLL error message. Based on experience with other
>programs under windows, I interpret this as a windows problem, not
>something Netscape-specific.
You are *so* unfair, Les. I guess you just hate Microsoft, huh? Evil
empire, all that?
;-D
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
http://www2.PetitionOnline.com/dejanews/petition.html
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **
The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.advocacy) via:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
ftp.funet.fi pub/Linux
tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux
sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux
End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
******************************
