Linux-Advocacy Digest #632, Volume #30 Sun, 3 Dec 00 19:13:04 EST
Contents:
Re: OS tree - SOUND OFF! (nf)
Re: Goodwin Acknowledges he's an idiot. (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Linux is awful (Pete Goodwin)
Re: how come Dell makes you buy Windows with all their PC's? (jtnews)
Re: Linux is awful (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Linux is awful (Robert)
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linux is awful (Robert)
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Red hat becoming illegal? (Chris Ahlstrom)
Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever (Giuliano Colla)
Re: Windows 2000 sucks compared to linux ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: Goodwin Acknowledges he's an idiot. ("sandrews")
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linux is awful (Robert)
Re: how come Dell makes you buy Windows with all their cheap PC's? (Donovan Rebbechi)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: nf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: OS tree - SOUND OFF!
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 16:16:01 -0500
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
> nf wrote:
> >
> > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
> > >
> > > VIC 20. A commordore based machine with 256K of ram I think.
> > >
> > Too funny! Try 2k!!! (Usable RAM!)
> >
> <snip>
> My VIC 20 has almost 3K (31??, if a definitive answer is
> required, I could reserect it). I got a 24k expansion card for
> it at about double the price for the original computer. My VIC
> 20 provided my with my first real personal computer
Thanks for the correction. It's appreciated. It's amazing to be
talking about all of these small RAM numbers.
My PC history:
TRS-80 Mod 1, Apple II+ (The first two I was exposed to)
TRS-80 Color Computer (6809 ... great machine)
TRS-80 Color Computer 2
Tandy 1000 (8088 IBM Clone)
Home built 286-12 Mhz 2 MB RAM
Home built 386sx - 16 Mhz 4 MB RAM
Home built 486sx - 25 Mhz 8 MB RAM
Pentium 120 - 64MB RAM, SCSI Drives & Tape backup (Still have this one
running Linux)
Pentium II-450 - 256MB RAM
iMac 500Mhz 128MB (For the wife and kid but I must confess... I like
it!)
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Goodwin Acknowledges he's an idiot.
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 22:01:51 +0000
Jim Richardson wrote:
> what does C-A-F12 do?
CTRL-ALT-F12 brings up console terminal 12, where various system messages
get logged. Very handy if X hangs. ALT F7 takes you back to X.
--
Pete, running KDE2 on Linux Mandrake 7.2
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 22:06:22 +0000
Les Mikesell wrote:
> I've never seen a Pnp AHA154x card - are you sure about that? If you
> mix pnp and non-pnp cards there is no way the pnp configuration step
> can tell what IRQs/ports/memory is being used by the ISA non-pnp
> cards.
It's a AHA1520 card and you can configure its settings via the BIOS and
PnP. My system BIOS displays it and the SB16 card as ISA PnP devices
> But that has something to do with your particular machine or cards. I
> thought when you described this earlier you said the adaptec card
> had no bios and the SB was an early model without pnp.
I never said the AHA1520 has no bios. I have used a AHA1510 which does not
have a BIOS, but the AHA1520 does have one.
My SB16 is a later model with PnP.
> I've installed them in two different machines under RedHat and Mandrake
> and it found and configured them automatically - but all the other cards
> were PCI. Perhaps you can ask them to include a disclaimer in their
> list, noting "Pete Goodwin's SB16" as an unsupported exception.
8)
> If the bios is enabled you can - you wouldn't with an AHA151x unless
> you are lucky in probing one of the possible settings and reading
> something
> you recognize. But, note that different things happen at boot up with pnp
> cards depending on whether you have told the bios that you are running a
> pnp OS or not. If the bios has this option and you say the OS is pnp, it
> will
> not configure the devices itself. The motherboard is usually better
> at configuring things to avoid conflicts than any OS, so it is best to
> say no if you get the choice.
Well, it failed to work with Mandrake 7.0 then worked just fine with 7.2
> There are good reasons that nobody uses ISA anymore.
Buying a decent PCI SCSI card is pretty expensive. This is an old machine,
so I saw no reason to do any more upgrades to it.
--
Pete, running KDE2 on Linux Mandrake 7.2
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 17:08:01 -0500
From: jtnews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: how come Dell makes you buy Windows with all their PC's?
JM wrote:
>
> On Sat, 02 Dec 2000 18:26:18 -0500, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> (jtnews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>
> >How come Dell bundles Windows with every PC?
> >Why can't I buy a machine without having to pay extra for Windows?
> >Same goes for all the other manufacturers.
>
> Why don't you just build them yourself?
I did some looking into that, but I can't seem to get the volume
discount prices on components that Dell gets. I always come out worse
off, even at places like pricewatch.com after I buy everything I need.
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 22:10:06 +0000
Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
> The BEST dual-O/S solution is install Linux on the "normal" boot
> partition, and then, through VMWAre, make a Windows installation.
That's the worst solution. VMWare is fairly slow compared to a Windows on
its own. It is after a 'virtual' machine. Out of curiousity I tried
installing VMWare, then used it to install Windows Millenium. It was still
trying to install it (about 10%) an hour later. Native Windows doesn't
normally take that long to install.
--
Pete, running KDE2 on Linux Mandrake 7.2
------------------------------
From: Robert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,alt.os.linux,alt.os.linux.mandrake
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 22:31:17 GMT
you wanted to overload the news server, is that?
What do you mean you COULDN'T kill KDE2?
Buddy, you don't know how the hell to kill a process
perhaps are you idiot enough not to kill as root? without the -9 flag?
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 21:08:28 GMT
Bruce Ediger writes:
>> Donovan Rebbechi writes:
>>> The movement keys are placed sensibly in vi (hjkl),
>> Which is not intuitive. First-time vi users, if they try to do
>> anything without having had a tutorial, won't get very far because
>> of that "every letter key is a command" approach. Most people
> http://www.asktog.com/papers/raskinintuit.html
>
> Jeff Raskin, "Intuitive Equals Familiar", Communications of the ACM,
> vol 37, no 9, Sept, 1994, pg 17.
Precisely why Aaron's "primitive tribesman" analogy fails. He's
hypothesizing someone with no familiarity (experience, to use my
term) with electrical appliances.
------------------------------
From: Robert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 22:49:55 GMT
> Help files are easier to read & understand than man files, and provide just
> as much information.
> Reason is that MS can:
> A> Keep them up to date.
> B> Pay somebody to write them in mostly non-technical jargon that the user
> can understand quite easily.
> C> Right click>What is?
> D> GUI is much easier to use than text files, as it doesn't require so much
> knowlege. See LinuxConf as proof of this. You can recall images better than
> text, most of the time. (That is how you recognize stuff around you, which
> is builtin into Homo Sapiens before it was Homo, text is a new invention.)
yes! windoze help system is really easy to use:
here's an example:
me> winoze doesn detect my ---
windoze> check if your --- is power ON and connected to your computer.
me> doesn work
windoze> you've found a problem that windoze help system cannot resolve,
please contact
*nobody* or your hardware provider for more information.
me> fuck you
but never ask microsoft about this!
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 21:28:31 GMT
Bill Vermillion writes:
> Tom Wilson wrote:
>> I wrote:
>>> Aaron R. Kulkis writes:
>>>>> Donovan Rebbechi writes:
>>>>>> The movement keys are placed sensibly in vi (hjkl),
>>>>> Which is not intuitive. First-time vi users, if they try to do
>>>> Big fucking deal. NOTHING about computers is "intuitive"
>>> Incorrect; consider the power switch.
>> You'd be surprised....
>> Never underestimate the idiot factor.
> Labeling the power switch 0 or 1 is definately not intuitive
> to someone who has not been exposed to computer logic.
It's more international than "Off" and "On", given that Arabic
numerals are used in countries where English is not the primary
language. And it doesn't make the power switch non-intuitive.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 21:30:45 GMT
Aaron R. Kulkis writes:
>> Tom Wilson writes:
>>>> Aaron R. Kulkis writes:
>>>>>> Donovan Rebbechi writes:
>>>>>>> The movement keys are placed sensibly in vi (hjkl),
>>>>>> Which is not intuitive. First-time vi users, if they try to do
>>>>> Big fucking deal. NOTHING about computers is "intuitive"
>>>> Incorrect; consider the power switch.
>>> You'd be surprised....
>>> Never underestimate the idiot factor.
>> We're talking about intuition, not incompetence.
> Put an electric appliance in front of somebody who has never
> used an electric appliance before, and you'll learn that there
> is absolutely NOTHING intuitive about on/off switches.
Once again, you're hypothesizing a situation that precludes
intuition.
> They are merely FAMILIAR, not intuitive.
How is an electric appliance familiar to someone who has never
used an electic appliance before?
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 21:32:01 GMT
Aaron R. Kulkis writes:
>>> Tom Wilson wrote:
>>>>> Aaron R. Kulkis writes:
>>>>>>> Donovan Rebbechi writes:
>>>>>>>> The movement keys are placed sensibly in vi (hjkl),
>>>>>>> Which is not intuitive. First-time vi users, if they try to do
>>>>>> Big fucking deal. NOTHING about computers is "intuitive"
>>>>> Incorrect; consider the power switch.
>>>> You'd be surprised....
>>>> Never underestimate the idiot factor.
>>> The power switch is NOT "intuitive"
>> You mean you need to consult a manual to learn how to turn a computer
>> on???
>>> Proof: put a primative tribesman in a room with electric appliances
>>> and tell him to start the things into operation.
>> How does that represent proof for your claim? Intuition comes from
>> experience. If you don't have the experience, then you need to consult
>> a manual. You're hypothesizing a situation in which there is no
>> experience.
> Circular argument.
Incorrect.
> You lose
Also incorrect.
> Dumbass.
Ah, the invective I've come to expect from people who don't have a
logical response.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 21:35:01 GMT
A aron R. Kulkis writes:
>> Tom Wilson writes:
>>> Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
>>>> Tom Wilson wrote:
>>>>> I wrote:
>>>>>> Aaron R. Kulkis writes:
>>>>>>>> Donovan Rebbechi writes:
>>>>>>>>> The movement keys are placed sensibly in vi (hjkl),
>>>>>>>> Which is not intuitive. First-time vi users, if they try to do
>>>>>>> Big fucking deal. NOTHING about computers is "intuitive"
>>>>>> Incorrect; consider the power switch.
>>>>> You'd be surprised....
>>>>> Never underestimate the idiot factor.
>>>> The power switch is NOT "intuitive"
>>>>
>>>> Proof: put a primative tribesman in a room with electric appliances
>>>> and tell him to start the things into operation.
>>> I'm in agreement.
>> You shouldn't be. His example doesn't represent proof for a power
>> switch not being intuitive.
> Then please provide a COGENT differing explanation.
I already provided a cogent explanation.
>>> The language I used, in hindsight, was wrong.
>> That doesn't justify your agreement.
>>> Read: Never underestimate the ignorance factor.
>>>
>>> I used "idiot" because i'ts been one of those nights...
>> Go to the store. Buy a lamp. Take it home. Do you consult a manual
>> to find out what to do with the cord? I hope not. Yet the hypothesized
> That's because people who live with electrical appliances KNOW
> that plugging in is part of the "installation" process.
So naturally you try to disprove the intuitive part of it by hypothesizing
someone who doesn't live with electrical appliances. That's where your
argument fails.
>> "primative tribesman" could have no idea what the cord is for. Does that
>> prove that the power cord is not intuitive?
> Precisely.
Yet that's what you tried to do.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 21:39:56 GMT
Aaron R. Kulkis writes:
> Tim Smith wrote:
>> Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
>>>> All other trials have failed to reproduce the results.
>>> <http://www.som.syr.edu/facstaff/dvorak/blackburn.html>
>>>
>>> "Typing, Fastest. Mrs. Barbara Blackburn of Salem, Oregon can maintain
>>> 150 wpm for 50 min (37,500 key strokes) and attains a speed of 170 wpm
>>> using the Dvorak Simplified Keyboard (DSK) system. Her top speed was
>>> recorded at 212 wpm. Source: Norris McWhirter, ed. (1985), THE GUINNESS
>>> BOOK OF WORLD RECORDS, 23rd US edition, New York: Sterling Publishing
>>> Co., Inc."
>> So? When offered as evidence that the Dvorak keyboard leads to faster
>> typing, this is so full of flaws it is hard to know where to begin. Has
>> it occured to you that the reason Mrs. Blackburn types so fast could be
>> due to characteristics of *her* rather than the keyboard layout?
> Get your attributions straight.
Practice what you preach, Aaron.
> That was the THOLEN-idiot,
Incorrect, Aaron. That link was provided in:
] From: Alan Baker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
] Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
] Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
] Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
] Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 09:57:43 GMT
> not me.
How ironic that you should refer to "idiot" in connection with an
incorrect attribution.
------------------------------
From: Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Red hat becoming illegal?
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 23:06:27 GMT
Tom Wilson wrote:
>
> "Feminists like to set the pace for how women like Mrs. Clinton are judged,
> correct? Well, in recent weeks feminist writers for The Washington Post and
> other news outlets have told us that we ought to judge Katherine Harris by
> her eyelashes, makeup and wardrobe, and decide based on these criteria that
> she cannot be trusted. So it's apparently okay, once again, to judge a
> female politician based on her looks, figure, clothes or makeup. This makes
> me think of something we can now say about Mrs. Clinton. In line with the
> feminists, I want to be the first to go on record as asserting that we
> cannot believe anything Hillary Clinton says, because she has a big broad
> beam and elephant ankles - and I want to thank the feminists of America for
> agreeing with me. "
>
> -- Rush Limbaugh
To hell with Rush. He's an idiot.
I think the kids in school used to pummel his
corpulent frame every chance they got,
and steal his lunch money, and play keep-away
with his earmuffs.
I'll bet even Bill Gates thinks Rush is stupid.
------------------------------
From: Giuliano Colla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 23:08:13 GMT
Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>
> Do you know how you remove TCP from Linux? It requires a kernel recompile.
> So Yes, it does require a reboot to remove it and another reboot to add it
> back in.
You're not exactly fair.
If by removing you mean "physically removing", then you're correct, but
that's of very little interest.
If you mean "disabling", i.e. making it unavailable to any user, locally
and remotely, which is what is normally required, you can do it without
rebooting, and without affecting any running application, except
applications using TCP, of course.
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windows 2000 sucks compared to linux
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 17:13:47 -0600
"Vann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:28yW5.4475$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Yes. Even though KDE isn't all that bad, I'm probably going to
> > "downgrade" to a less resource intensive wm.
> As a personal user of Blackbox, I'd have to recommend that. I used to use
> WindowMaker on my 486, and it ran fine, but ever since I got my new (
> Well, it's old now ) computer I've been running blackbox.
> http://blackbox.alug.org, if you're interested. It's fast, small, and it
> can be made to look damn good. It's a matter of personal choice, though,
> there isn't much difference performance wise between blackbox and
> windowmaker on a machine like that.
Hmm.. I'm not real impressed with either WindowMaker or BlackBox from the
screenshots i've seen. I'm not exactly looking for lots of eye candy, but I
am looking for something that feels comfortable and neither look like it to
me.
> Well, I used to have that problem, but there are ways to solve it. First
> off, you can increase the dpi used in XFree86. For me, I have this line
> in /etc/X11/xdm/Xservers:
> :0 local /usr/X11R6/bin/X -nolisten tcp -dpi 92
> The -nolisten tcp is for added security, since I don't use the networking
> features built into X. -dpi 92 is pretty self explanatory. Then, if you
> use the x font server ( I don't with XFree86 4.01 ), edit
> /etc/X11/fs/config, and make sure there is a line like this:
> default-resolutions = 75,75,100,100 Now, you can install truetype fonts,
> if you want. There's a nice tutorial on how to do that at
> http://www.linuxnewbie.org. Again, TTF font support is built into XFree86
> 4.01, so there will be additional steps if you're using XFree86 3.3.x
> I run my monitor at 1280x1024, and the text looks perfect in netscape.
> See, now this wasn't so hard, was it? *cough cough*
Very ;) Actually, It does look better after chaing the dpi. Thanks.
Worse yet, I have just found out that Linux-Mandrake ships with all hard
drive optimizations turned off. You have to fiddle with the hdparm program
to get dma and multisector reads turned on. Then figure out how to make it
permanent ;)
------------------------------
From: "sandrews" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Goodwin Acknowledges he's an idiot.
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 18:10:47 +0500
In article <uHwW5.9761$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Pete Goodwin"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> sandrews wrote:
>
>> yah right, I have been running GNOME with all the goodies for 2
>> years now and I have yet to have anything GNOME related core. I
>> haven't had any Linux app core in over a year. Now what dol the
>> wintrolls have to say now?
>
> Today whilst I was copy 1GByte of data from a locally mounted drive to
> an NFS mounted drive, KDE + X locked up totally. CTRL+ALT+F12 was
> dead, so I tried TELNET. Unfortunately, I don't have that service
> running, so I rebooted.
>
What has this have to do with GNOME? KDE != GNOME
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 21:52:58 GMT
Aaron R. Kulkis writes:
> Tim Smith wrote:
>>>>> Big fucking deal. NOTHING about computers is "intuitive"
>>>> Incorrect; consider the power switch.
>>> Only to those with previous experience with power switches.
>>>
>>> Put a computer in front of a person from a remote village which
>>> has no electrical service, and let's see how "intuitive" the
>>> power switch is.
>> OK, now you are getting silly. Give those villagers electricity, and
>> all the usual electrical applicances other than computers, and let them
>> become comfortable with them, THEN give them a computer. The power switch
>> on the computer will be intuitive to them.
>>
>> You are confusing "intuitive" with "instinctive".
> http://www.asktog.com/papers/raskinintuit.html
>
> Jeff Raskin, "Intuitive Equals Familiar", Communications of the ACM,
> vol 37, no 9, Sept, 1994, pg 17.
Why are you citing evidence that destroys your argument, Aaron?
Familiarity (or experience, to use my word for it) does not have
to be universal before something can be declared "intuitive".
Here's a good rule of thumb: if you need to consult the manual,
it's not intuitive.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 21:54:16 GMT
Aaron R. Kulkis writes:
> Bruce Ediger wrote:
>> I wrote:
>>> Donovan Rebbechi writes:
>>>> The movement keys are placed sensibly in vi (hjkl),
>>> Which is not intuitive. First-time vi users, if they try to do
>>> anything without having had a tutorial, won't get very far because
>>> of that "every letter key is a command" approach. Most people
>> http://www.asktog.com/papers/raskinintuit.html
>>
>> Jeff Raskin, "Intuitive Equals Familiar", Communications of the ACM,
>> vol 37, no 9, Sept, 1994, pg 17.
> Yes, that describes it PRECISELY.
It also describes why your argument is flawed, as I previously pointed
out.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 21:49:01 GMT
Tom Wilson writes:
>>> Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
>>>> Tom Wilson wrote:
>>>>> I wrote:
>>>>>> Aaron R. Kulkis writes:
>>>>>>>> Donovan Rebbechi writes:
>>>>>>>>> The movement keys are placed sensibly in vi (hjkl),
>>>>>>>> Which is not intuitive. First-time vi users, if they try to do
>>>>>>> Big fucking deal. NOTHING about computers is "intuitive"
>>>>>> Incorrect; consider the power switch.
>>>>> You'd be surprised....
>>>>> Never underestimate the idiot factor.
>>>> The power switch is NOT "intuitive"
>>>>
>>>> Proof: put a primative tribesman in a room with electric appliances
>>>> and tell him to start the things into operation.
>>> I'm in agreement.
>> You shouldn't be. His example doesn't represent proof for a power
>> switch not being intuitive.
> I'm agreeing that my choice of "idiot" was wrong.
But Aaron didn't say that your choice of "idiot" was wrong.
> The hypothesis, strange as it is, points it out. It's a matter of
> experience and environment, not intellect.
"Experience" is the word I used for it. Someone else chose "familiarity".
> I used the word idiot because I had been trouble-shooting over
> the phone to complete morons that evening and had a dim view of
> humanity as a result.
Someone who couldn't find the "any" key on the keyboard?
>>> The language I used, in hindsight, was wrong.
>> That doesn't justify your agreement.
> How do you figure? I was agreeing that my wording was off track and
> Aaron's post had pointed that out.
Aaron's post wasn't pointing to your wording. He was simply repeating
his claim that the power switch was not intuitive.
>>> Read: Never underestimate the ignorance factor.
>>>
>>> I used "idiot" because i'ts been one of those nights...
>> Go to the store. Buy a lamp. Take it home. Do you consult a manual
>> to find out what to do with the cord? I hope not. Yet the hypothesized
>> "primative tribesman" could have no idea what the cord is for. Does that
>> prove that the power cord is not intuitive?
> Oh for God's sake!
Which presupposes the existence of God.
> His hypothesis was extreme, yes. However, it makes a valid point regarding
> experience.
On the contrary, it ignores the essential element of intuitive design,
which involves experience with similar items. If someone states something
about trees, you don't go to a desert and then proclaim the statement about
trees to be wrong.
> You're bordering on anal retention, i'm afraid.
How ironic.
------------------------------
From: Robert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,alt.os.linux,alt.os.linux.mandrake
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 23:16:47 GMT
Among all the fucking errors windoze has, three of them are the
greatest:
-Windows couldn't find the following file required for installation:
MSSUCK32.DLL
Please specify the route to file. (D:\WIN98 doesnt work) and what the
hell shall
i know about the fucking location of windoze installation files?
-When it detects the same device again every time you reboot (and it
gets added to
'the same device' list)
Standard 56k Modem
Standard 56k Modem #1
Standard 56k Modem #2
Standard 56k Modem #3
Standard 56k Modem #4
.
. (you get the point)
.
and none of them does work.
Note it'll probably prompt you to reboot every time you reboot and it
detects a *new* device.
-When it pops the error message: 'An error #<insert random number here>
ocurred. There's no message for this error.'
well, they wrote the code that triggered this error. Why the hell forgot
to write also the message?
-- mmh i think this usenet thread will never come to an end
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
Subject: Re: how come Dell makes you buy Windows with all their cheap PC's?
Date: 3 Dec 2000 23:18:47 GMT
On Sun, 03 Dec 2000 14:19:33 -0500, jtnews wrote:
>My Dell Dimension V400C runs linux great!
It didn't "run Linux great". The sound card didn't work, for example.
It's all well to say that they should offer the Dimension-L with Linux,
but when released, it didn't work with Linux AT ALL, and even now, it's
pretty questionable (because of the onboard intel video which requires
a special kernel module)
>I have an ATI Rage Pro chip on this machine and it runs games like SOF
>fine
>too. Most of the expensive hardware really gives you minimal
>performance
>gain.
Yes, but the expensive hardware works with Linux, while a lot of the
cheap hardware doesn't work. For example, the cheap onboard sound they
used to have on the cheapo dells didn't work, and the onboard intel
graphics still doesn't work very well (after not working at all)
>The point I'm making is that while the added cost of having a bundled
>Windows doesn't make much of a difference to me personally,
>on an industry wide basis, subsidization of Windows on the low end
>machines
>where the volume is, is harmful to the development of alternative
>operating
>systems because many startups try to initially enter the marketplace at
>the low end where the amount of capital spending is minimal and the
>margins
>razor thin. Shaving these little costs off can be the deciding factor
>in choosing whether to enter these markets or leave them to the already
>entrenched incumbents.
I don't understand your point. I'd guess that it's easier for a Linux vendor
to enter the market with Dell screwing up by refusing to support Linux
on their low end machines. Indeed, thelinuxstore.com seem to have Linux
compatiblemachines cheaper than anything available from Dell.
--
Donovan Rebbechi * http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/ *
elflord at panix dot com
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