Linux-Advocacy Digest #465, Volume #31 Sun, 14 Jan 01 19:13:07 EST
Contents:
Re: Linux *has* the EDGE! ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: More Linux woes ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: you dumb. and lazy. ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: More Linux woes ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Windows 2000 ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: The real truth about NT ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: OS-X GUI on Linux? ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: OS-X GUI on Linux? ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: More Linux woes (mlw)
Re: The real truth about NT's aggressive caching ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: One case where Linux has the edge ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: OS-X GUI on Linux? ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: Linux is crude and inconsistant. ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux *has* the EDGE!
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 18:00:00 -0600
"Shane Phelps" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> > "R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard )" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:93qqpo$aqc$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> I'm jsut going to pick a few nits here ....
Please do.
> > > > Actually, Apple started it.
> > >
> > > Actually, Busy/Wait was first used in FORTH. Even today,
> > > many FORTH systems are used for robotics and engine control
> > > on automobiles, as well as thermostats, microwaves, and VCRs.
> >
> > Which doesn't change the fact that the previous year, Apple introduce
MacOS
> > with cooperative multitasking. If it was obsolete, why did Apple do
this?
> > And better yet, why is it only MS's fault?
>
> Actually, Apple have made *lots* of technically bad decisions, along
> with bad
> business decisions. They have also made enough good decisions in both
> areas to
> be plugging along with approx 7% (I think) of the desktop market.
> It will be interesting to see how well the Mac faithful take to MacOS X
Indeed. I still don't understand how Cooperative multitasking was MS's
fault, and how it was "obsolete" years earlier.
> > > Windows 2000 has a number of technological "anti-linux" measures. It
took
> > a
> > > bit of time for the Linux community to figure out work-arounds. I
> > personally
> > > love that Windows 2000 supports both FAT 32 and NTFS.
> >
> > How is that "anti-linux"?
>
> I'm not sure what Rex means here, either. The changes to SMB (Windows
networking)
> and RDP (Windows terminal server) certainly don't help interopability
much.
> Citrix Metaframe still seems to work nicely, though.
I highly doubt that the changes were made to be anti-linux. Chances are,
they weren't even thinking about linux when they did it.
> To be fair, MS are helping the Samba project to some extent.
They also worked with the kerberos people too.
> > > SMB and WNS were published when GPL file systems such as NFS and AFS
> > > were about to be offered for Windows.
> >
> > NFS has been on Windows since 1990. I was using a sun NFS client way
back
> > then.
> >
> I think Sun offered PC-NFS even earlier than that. It was very
> expensive, though. Rex may have been talking about an NFS server for
Windows.
> I think these are comparatively recent. They also seem rather flakey :-(
If he meant server, I don't think NFS was GPL'd when SMB was created back in
the late 80's. I think it was still a Sun protocol.
> I also remember using TotalNet (SMB compatible) in 1990 or 1991 to allow
PCs
> to use an AIX box as a file/print server. HP had LAN Manager / X out even
> before that.
Agreed.
> > > Microsoft tried to lock Linux out of the internet using MS-CHAP,
> > > but leaked the information when Linux servers threatened to lock
> > > out Microsoft MSN customers.
> >
> > MS-CHAP is merely an authorization protocol for dialups. Clients don't
NEED
> > to use CHAP.
>
> Not sure about that. I saw a lot of emails complaining about MS-CHAP
> where it seemd the ISP was forcing CHAP. Never tried it myself, so it's
> anectdotal evidence.
If an ISP demands the use of MS-CHAP, it's no different from an ISP
demanding the use of Netscape. It's the ISP's decision.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: More Linux woes
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 23:54:58 GMT
On Sun, 14 Jan 2001 18:45:06 -0500, mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Your ignorance is astounding.
Sorry mlw, but it is YOU who is ignorant.
>Audio CDROMs do not provide information during play, to try to get
>information from a CD while it is playing causes it to skip. The CD
>player writers want to put up a cute little spectral analysis window
>when the music is playing, this is the only way to do this.
You missed the point......
Under Linsux the CDROM and Sound card, were doing digital audio
EXTRACTION from the CD itself (a bit for bit copy if you will),
transferring it over the IDE CHANNEL to the soundboard which then
translated it into analog audio and played the music. While this has
it's uses, it consumes an ENORMOUS amount of bandwidth and is totally
unacceptable as a default setting.
Under Win2k I can select either analog CD output or Digital output and
depending upon which one I select, the signal is transferred over one
of 2 little cables with berg connectors. The IDE channel is NOT used
for data transfer and as a result the system performance is NOT
impacted.
I can however CHOOSE to send data over the IDE channel if I wish by
changing the CDROM properties in the Win2k Device driver settings, but
for just playing audio CD's this is foolish.
The preferred setting it to have the CDROM spit out either analog
audio or digital audio via one of the little cables DIRECTLY to the
sound card, therefore bypassing the IDE bus and not impacting system
performance much at all.
No, YOUR ignorance is astounding...
Stick to compilers and editors or at least topics you know something
about.
>This has NOTHING to do with Linux.
Sure it does....
How do I turn it off?
And why is Linux crazy enough to make this a default setting?
Flatfish
Why do they call it a flatfish?
Remove the ++++ to reply.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: you dumb. and lazy.
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 18:54:36 -0500
ono wrote:
>
> And what's the difference between 'not statically' linked libraries and
> dll's?
If you have to ask, you wouldn't understand.
>
> "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > ono wrote:
> > >
> > > > You moron....
> > > > Linux doesn't have any "DLL Hell", ignorant twit.
> > > > Linux libraries are properly versioned, and successive versions of the
> > > > same library can be kept on the same system without conflict.
> > > And thats why linux suffers from bloat! Because every program comes with
> > > it's own statically linked version of the same shit. MS at least tried
> to do
> > > something.
> >
> > Dumbshit. Statically linked libraries were abandoned years ago.
> >
> >
> > > But you're right, dll versioning (even with) COM fails sometimes (but
> NEVER
> > > when you run MS only software).
> > > ok! it's not never...... it's nearly never.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Aaron R. Kulkis
> > Unix Systems Engineer
> > DNRC Minister of all I survey
> > ICQ # 3056642
> >
> >
> > H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
> > premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
> > you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
> > you are lazy, stupid people"
> >
> > I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
> > challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
> > between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
> > Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
> >
> > J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
> > The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
> > also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
> >
> > A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
> >
> > B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
> > method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
> > direction that she doesn't like.
> >
> > C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
> >
> > D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
> > ...despite (C) above.
> >
> > E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
> > her behavior improves.
> >
> > F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
> > adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
> >
> > G: Knackos...you're a retard.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: More Linux woes
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 23:56:02 GMT
On Sun, 14 Jan 2001 23:09:41 +0000, pip
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>> Every time I look a little deeper I discover another reason why Linux
>> sucks, and I'm not even trying hard to find these things.
>
>Then go and use another OS. What's your problem? Someone is
>forcing you?
No, this is an advocacy group and in fact I have seen some of the very
items I have complained about in the past incorporated into future
Linux distributions so somebody is actually listening.
Flatfish
Why do they call it a flatfish?
Remove the ++++ to reply.
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windows 2000
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 18:03:59 -0600
"Gary Hallock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>
> >
> > Yes, there was a long history of such in the scientific and perhaps even
> > banking industry, but not the *PC* industry.
>
> 6502? 6800? 68000? 68030? Of all the microprocessors available at
the
> time the only ones that I can think of that were little endian were Intel
or
> Intel compatible.
And your point is what? The early years of the PC industry were entirely
Intel based. I'm not talking about Apple II's or Commoodre 64's here, but
rather business machines bought by businesses. Back then, the mainframe
people (even inside IBM) thought PC's were a fad that would pass and put
nearly no effort into connectivity between systems. The only way to
communicate at the time for most people was BBS's, and even then people
didn't exchange documents.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The real truth about NT
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 18:57:45 -0500
The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
>
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Aaron R. Kulkis
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote
> on Thu, 11 Jan 2001 21:45:19 -0500
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >Pete Goodwin wrote:
> >>
> >> Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
> >>
> >> > Dlue for the clueless: Disk drive images are NOT an acceptable
> >> > alternative to backup tapes.
> >>
> >> Ses you.
> >>
> >> There are other backup media than tapes. CD-R comes to mind.
> >
> >Let's see....CD-R
> >
> >Write once....and then it can't be used again.
> >Capacity ... less than 1G.
> >
> >4mm DAT
> >
> >Write once....it's still good for several hundred RE-recordings
> >Capacity... 2G - 25G
>
> As a personal note -- take it as you will -- I have a 4020i, a DAT,
> and a SyJet. The 4020i has been problematical and finicky, and
> is currently on my P90 firewall (yuck) because my other box -- a
> PP200 -- doesn't seem to have a space for the interrupt and/or DMA
> (I forget which) for the card coming with it. In short, I almost
> never use it anymore.
>
> I also have an HP 4mm DAT drive. It was also problematical and
> finicky; not sure why. (It might have been substandard media,
> admittedly; its main problem was that it liked to go back and
> forth and back and forth on the tape during restore. This
> took a very long time...)
How often do you run a cleaning tape through the thing?
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: OS-X GUI on Linux?
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 18:06:25 -0600
"." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:93t7rd$en0$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Erik Funkenbusch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > "." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:93t22l$gob$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> Erik Funkenbusch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> > "Charlie Ebert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> >> Absolutely,
> >> >>
> >> >> OS-X on Linux.
> >> >>
> >> >> I'll try that.
> >>
> >> > What kind of a moron are you? OS-X is BSD. How could you run BSD on
> > Linux?
> >>
> >> OSX is *not* BSD. You are quite highly misinformed.
>
> > It's BSD based.
>
> Loosely. WindowsME is dos based in just about the same way.
No matter how you look at it, OS-X can't run on Linux.
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: OS-X GUI on Linux?
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 18:09:16 -0600
"Andy Newman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> >Yes, you could come up with a solution, but it would be vastly slower
than X
> >running natively. Thus nearly all existing apps would take a large
penalty
> >hit.
>
> Since you don't know what the solutions are you cannot say it would be
"vastly
> slower than X running natively". The dominating factor in most X servers
is
> how fast they can get pixels to the screen. If the code path to the
underlying
> output mechanism, e.g, Quartz, is not too convoluted and avoids copies -
which
> Mach IPC-based things can avoid trivially, the system does it all for you
using
> VM tricks - and the "blocking factor" (avg. # pixels/blit) is high enough
then
> it's very likely you wouldn't see much of a hit at all.
I say this because X is socket based, and as such always will require
sockets because that's how the apps communicate with X. That means you need
a translation layer that (at a minimum) is a socket server to accept X
commands and data and translate them to Quartz and vice versa. That layer
already slows X down tremendously, and then adding the overhead of Quartz
and DPS makes it even worse.
Don't get me wrong, both X and DPS are fast enough by themselves, but if you
combine them, you're talking quite a performance hit.
------------------------------
From: mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: More Linux woes
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 19:08:29 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> On Sun, 14 Jan 2001 18:45:06 -0500, mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >Your ignorance is astounding.
>
> Sorry mlw, but it is YOU who is ignorant.
>
> >Audio CDROMs do not provide information during play, to try to get
> >information from a CD while it is playing causes it to skip. The CD
> >player writers want to put up a cute little spectral analysis window
> >when the music is playing, this is the only way to do this.
>
> You missed the point......
>
> Under Linsux the CDROM and Sound card, were doing digital audio
> EXTRACTION from the CD itself (a bit for bit copy if you will),
> transferring it over the IDE CHANNEL to the soundboard which then
> translated it into analog audio and played the music. While this has
> it's uses, it consumes an ENORMOUS amount of bandwidth and is totally
> unacceptable as a default setting.
It is also the default setting for the latest Windows Media player, so
what?
>
> Under Win2k I can select either analog CD output or Digital output and
> depending upon which one I select, the signal is transferred over one
> of 2 little cables with berg connectors. The IDE channel is NOT used
> for data transfer and as a result the system performance is NOT
> impacted.
One can do this under Linux as well.
>
> I can however CHOOSE to send data over the IDE channel if I wish by
> changing the CDROM properties in the Win2k Device driver settings, but
> for just playing audio CD's this is foolish.
It has nothing to do with Linux, it has everything to do with the CD
players and looking "cool."
>
> The preferred setting it to have the CDROM spit out either analog
> audio or digital audio via one of the little cables DIRECTLY to the
> sound card, therefore bypassing the IDE bus and not impacting system
> performance much at all.
These are application settings, this has nothing to do with Linux as an
OS.
--
http://www.mohawksoft.com
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The real truth about NT's aggressive caching
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 19:04:26 -0500
The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
>
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Aaron R. Kulkis
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote
> on Thu, 11 Jan 2001 10:39:39 -0500
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >pip wrote:
> >>
> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >>
> >> > > I get 100% success with Windows 98 SE. What's your point?
> >> >
> >> > How much do you burn? My company burn's about 1000 CD's per month (all
> >> > custom stuff for clients).
> >>
> >> Then get better CDR software :-)
> >> What has this got to do with the OS?
> >
> >The CD writing process is susceptible to bottle-neck-induced errors.
> >
> >NT's "agressive caching" technique (i.e. caching when there's absolutely
> >no fucking reason to cache), causes disk I/O bottlenecks...thereby
> >increasing the likelihood of your CDR-burn to have errors.
>
> I'd like some details on this; in particular, does it preread sectors
> of files open for read, thereby putting extra pages into the cache?
whoops, I meant "aggressive swapping"...
It was a much bally-hooed feature...that NT would start swapping BEFORE
it had to.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: One case where Linux has the edge
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 00:05:42 GMT
On Sun, 14 Jan 2001 23:29:11 +0000, Pete Goodwin
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I can't argue with that!
I submitted a bug report to Mandrake.
>> Can I ask a question Pete?
>>
>> Why on earth are you wasting so much time trying to make Linux do for
>> you what it seems incapable of doing?
>
>You want reasons?
Why not :)
>Linux is more stable than Windows 98 SE and (probably) Windows Millenium.
Definitely for ME, but Win98SE is perfectly stable for me running my
digital audio work.
I admit it is a custom, well chosen system and is not really typical
of the average consumer system where programs are installed and
de-installed on a daily basis.
>Linux can be remotely controlled - I can log in on one machine and do
>things on the other. Very useful to me. Now that my server is Windows
>Millenium, I can't do this without writing something myself. Not so useful.
I can do most things from my Win2k server, but in reality I prefer to
walk upstairs to the other computers, but I can see your point.
>I can read mail, news. Browsing is a bit silly with Netscape and konqueror.
How do you read news offline, meaning you can download the
messages/bodies read and reply and then spit them back to the server
without having to be connected the entire time?
>
>Can I telnet into Windows 2000 and burn a CDROM?
Why would you want to?
Who mounts the CDROM for you (inserts the media into the burner)?
>Can I telnet into Windows 2000 and shut it down?
I never shut down, but I don't know if it is possible or not.
>That's what Linux could do for me.
Seems like weak reasons considering the abundance of quality,
professional applications available for Windows compared to the junk
available for Linux.
>That's what it looks like Linux Mandrake is doing. Time to change distro.
>Let's see... how much does a CD cost from my favourite emporium? �5? How
>much does Windows 2000 Professional cost? �300? What am I to do? Line the
>pockets of that company caught being naughty or get hold of free software.
It depends on your particular needs. For me, $125.00 or so is well
worth it in time and applications. Don't get me wrong I loathe MS, but
they happen to make the best OS for the things I need to do and 90
percent of the rest of the world seems to agree, at least for the
desktop.
>> I see Linux as a crude compromise between cost and time.
>
>I see Linux as cheap and fun. When it's not being frustrating.
It's cheap, and it is interesting and someday it WILL be a major
contender for the desktop.
I'm just not certain if I will be alive by the time that happens
though, I am 40yo BTW.
Linux is a novelty that ends up folks systems because of curiosity and
ends up in the trash can just as quickly because it does not satisfy
the needs of the typical desktop user.
I have seen it happen 100 times or more.
Flatfish
Why do they call it a flatfish?
Remove the ++++ to reply.
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: OS-X GUI on Linux?
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 18:12:10 -0600
"mlw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> >
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > >You're crazy. All existing GUI apps would not work with Quartz
because
> > the
> > > >existing apps use sockets to connect to the GUI.
> > >
> > > Do you work at being this stupid?
> > >
> > > Existing GUI apps would have a problem with the different ABI
> > > and API standards. Once they hand requests off to the graphics
> > > subsystem they don't give a damn how those requests are handled
> > > so long as the outputs are within the margins they are expecting.
> >
> > How exactly do apps "hand requests off to the graphics subsystem"? In
X,
> > they use sockets to do so. In Quartz (I don't know enough here) I
assume
> > it's an API call similar to the existing Mac API calls. Those are two
> > different ways of doing something. Since X apps are just using sockets,
> > rather than a specific graphical API, there isn't any way to
differentiate
> > an X command from any other kind of socket request, thus you can't
create
> > some kind of middleman layer without having an X server that translates
X
> > calls to Quartz, which means that the calls must first go through
sockets,
> > then through Quartz and display postscript, then back to sockets to get
back
> > to the app. SLOW.
>
> Obviously, you've never looked at systems like WINE. How does wine
> handle Windows GDI calls? The Windows program need not even know it is
> talking to an X server.
I never said it did need to know, in fact I proposed a translation layer in
the text you copied.
WINE is an interesting beast, and really illustrates my point. WINE apps
are extremely sluggish in their display compared to native X and even more
so compared to native Windows.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Linux is crude and inconsistant.
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 00:07:46 GMT
On Sun, 14 Jan 2001 23:39:34 GMT, T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Wow. Be careful you don't cut yourself with that razor-sharp wit,
>claire.
But it is true. If Gates released an OS with the basic "gotchas'" that
you Penguinista's put up with on a regular basis, he would have been
out of business years ago.
Linux is full of bugs and anyone who trusts their system to a
collection of 1-x versions of programs with no proven track record is
out of their minds.
Flatfish
Why do they call it a flatfish?
Remove the ++++ to reply.
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