Linux-Advocacy Digest #687, Volume #31 Tue, 23 Jan 01 21:13:03 EST
Contents:
Re: I am preparing to teach a Linux class and I am soliciting advice
([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linux is crude and inconsistent. ("Kyle Jacobs")
Re: Linux is crude and inconsistant. ("Martin Eden")
Re: Please help! adding a line (Edward Rosten)
Re: Kernel space? Who gives a @#$% ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Linux is crude and inconsistent. ("Kyle Jacobs")
Re: Games? Who cares about games? (Edward Rosten)
Re: 3100 W2K Adv Servers deployed accross Europe
Re: 3100 W2K Adv Servers deployed accross Europe
Re: 3100 W2K Adv Servers deployed accross Europe ("nuxx")
Re: 3100 W2K Adv Servers deployed accross Europe
Re: Games? Who cares about games? (Edward Rosten)
Re: Games? Who cares about games?
Re: Linux is crude and inconsistant. (Donn Miller)
Re: 3100 W2K Adv Servers deployed accross Europe (Edward Rosten)
Re: Linux is crude and inconsistant. (T. Max Devlin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.questions,comp.os.linux.admin,comp.os.linux.help,linux.redhat
Subject: Re: I am preparing to teach a Linux class and I am soliciting advice
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 01:04:58 +0000
Jeff Silverman wrote:
>
> Hi. I am an experienced Linux/UNIX sysadmin and I am getting ready to teach a class
>on Linux for
> the Communications Workers of America and WashTech. I am soliciting comments and
>suggestions from
> people in the Linux community about what I ought to teach.
>
> The students will be adults with some computer experience, most likely in MacOS or
>MS-Windows.
>
> I assume that I have to teach them the basics:
>
> 1) How to login and how to logout
> 2) File manipulation commands: cp, mv, rm, rmdir, ln, cat, more, find, grep, sort,
>uniq. Also I/O
> redirection and pipelines
> 3) An editor. vi? emacs? Something else? No flame wars, please.
> 4) Minimal sysadmin stuff - assuming they are going to run their own machines. Is
>that a reasonable
> assumption? Account management. Minimal security issues. Networking (that's a
>mouthful).
>
> It gets more complicated... GUIs. Should I teach KDE? gnome? Motif?
>
> How about shell scripting?
>
> What do beginning users need to know?
>
> Thank you for your time.
>
Most people use emacs a lot (I hate it, but still), however, vi remains
a useful tool, and one worth learning the basics of.
Probably need to teach them a bit of hardware config, and if they might
run it at home, the fundamentals of shell scripts is ESSENTIAL, but
don't go too deep if they are beginners.
Show them kde and gnome etc, and let them explore them. they aren't
that hard, and people with any PC background will figure it out.
One final note, teach them how to read a manpage! This was one of the
hardest things I had to learn when I started out. It was like you KNOW
there is info in the document, you just can't make sense of it (and of
course, man man is no help)!
--
http://www.guild.bham.ac.uk/chess-club
------------------------------
From: "Kyle Jacobs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Linux is crude and inconsistent.
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 01:02:43 GMT
I have a better suspicion. Your O2k install is damaged, or corrupt, and the
document conversion engine is malfunctioning, causing the hard lock.
Did you try another workstation? Didn't think so.
"." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:94ksde$prf$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > On 23 Jan 2001 16:32:47 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> >>In comp.os.linux.advocacy T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>> Said Kyle Jacobs in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Tue, 23 Jan 2001
04:35:45
> >>> [...]
> >>>>I think distributing PDF format files is an excelent idea. Even if it
does
> >>>>max bandwidth. [...]
> >>
> >>> PDF files are generally much smaller than their Word document
> >>> counterpart.
> >>
> >>In this vein, guess what happens to a W2K machine when you use
office2000
> >>to read a document you converted in staroffice from .rtf to .doc?
>
> > Now, why exactly would you bother?
>
> Because someone a few levels above me does not understand that unix exists
> at all, let alone is an operating system that I use daily on my main
workstation;
>
> I sent him an .rtf document and he returned it saying "I cant open
anything thats
> not a .doc" (why is it that he clicks on every goddamn .exe he sees, even
if its
> called "thisisavirusdontclickonit.exe", yet he refuses to double-fucking
click
> on an .rtf?) Anyhow, I get it back, do the conversion in staroffice under
Solaris,
> send it back and get a phone call.
>
> Him: "Your document broke my computer"
> Me: *snork*
> Him: "I need you to come take a look at this right away"
> Me: "ok. *giggle*"
>
> I go look at his machine, and sure enough its freshly rebooted and sitting
there
> with an icon of the document I sent him right on his desktop where he can
find it
> without too much trouble. I open up word2K and open up the document.
>
> It opens and displays perfectly, but as soon as I scroll, the machine hard
locks.
>
> Repeat once more, same effect.
>
> So the third time I DONT scroll, but instead choose 'save as'. I save it
as an RTF,
> open it that way, RE-save it as a .doc and it works just fine.
>
> Thats what windows gets for trying to 'execute' text files.
>
> If you decide to try it, do it with bullets and tables; I have a feeling
that a
> normal, natural text file wont cut the mustard in this case.
>
>
>
>
> -----.
>
------------------------------
From: "Martin Eden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Linux is crude and inconsistant.
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 01:08:53 GMT
"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> >
> >> >It's not "based on" BSD any more than Solaris is "based on" BSD.
> >>
> >> Solaris isn't based on BSD, its based on System V. SunOS was based on
> >> BSD.
> >
> >No kidding, c.o.l.a. nut.
> >
> >>
> >> Thanks for your time. Hope it helps.
> >
> >No problem. My door is always open for a Microsoft using Linux fanatic.
>
> Cool. So have we sorted this out, yet? Is Debian based on BSD, or not?
>
LOL! Well I didn't think it was, but since many people have so many
definitions as what constitutes the phrase "based on" I am not sure any
more. Maybe it would be valid to say that BSD is based upon Debian.
Windows 2000 must be based upon BeOS, since so many of the cool features of
Be showed up in NT5. (alpha blending, indexing service, journalled
filesystem). Hrmmm. Yup! I see the light now.
;-)
> --
> T. Max Devlin
> *** The best way to convince another is
> to state your case moderately and
> accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
>
------------------------------
From: Edward Rosten <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Please help! adding a line
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 01:11:20 +0000
Bones wrote:
>
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > Hi:
> > I have to create a file (using konsole) called fileA with the following
> > content:
> [snip]
> > Then I have to add "I wonder" to the TOP of fileA. How do I do that?
> > Please pay attention that I have to add TO THE TOP of fileA.
>
> Open up the text editor that comes with KDE and add it...?
>
> If you mean to do it non-interactively from the command-line, you could
> probably do it this way using a minimum of special utilties:
>
> 1) Assuming that you want a carriage return:
> echo -e "I wonder \n$(cat fileA)" > filea
^^^^^^^^^^^
YUK! This isn't going to work for big files. It's also a little
inefficient to copy the whole of the file to the command line before
putting it back in to a file. I think this may be a little better:
echo "I wonder" | cat - fileA > filea
> 2) Assuming that you *don't* want a carriage return:
> echo "I wonder $(cat fileA)" > filea
likewise:
echo -n "I wonder" | cat - fileA > filea
*********NB***********
With the 2 above examples, filea and fileA MUST NOT BE THE SAME!!!
because the shell will truncate the file (as a result of >) before
trying to read it, so you will loose the old file.
Or you could try:
echo "I wonder" > filea
cat filea >> fileA
HTH
-Ed
--
Did you know that the reason that windows steam up in cold|Edward Rosten
weather is because of all the fish in the atmosphere? |u98ejr
- The Hackenthorpe Book of lies |@
|eng.ox.ac.uk
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Kernel space? Who gives a @#$%
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 20:12:48 -0500
Jan Johanson wrote:
>
> "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Jan Johanson wrote:
> > >
> > > "Tim" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:h9mh6tk6jajl34me0arbgqpk395ouacolu@news...
> > > > On 14 Jan 2001 21:04:13 -0600, "Jan Johanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > [snip]
> > > >
> > > > Notice the troll drops a big steamy one and then is nowhere to be
> > > > heard when people follow-up to his article.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Unlike linux geeks - I have a social life and a paying job - hence, I do
> not
> >
> > I have a VERY high paying job and an INTERNATIONAL social life.
>
> Translation: I actually make money which makes me, in comparison to linux
> programmers, VERY highly paid (but compared to windows programmers, a street
> mime).
Windows programmers are a dime a dozen.
People who can properly manage corporate database servers for Fortune 500
operations are a rare breed.
>
> Translation2: Uncle Sam sends me overseas without any say so on my own part.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Kyle Jacobs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Linux is crude and inconsistent.
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 01:14:42 GMT
Don't bother, I couldn't reproduce the problem.
"Specialty issue" I guess.
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On 23 Jan 2001 16:32:47 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> >In comp.os.linux.advocacy T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> Said Kyle Jacobs in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Tue, 23 Jan 2001 04:35:45
> >> [...]
> >>>I think distributing PDF format files is an excelent idea. Even if it
does
> >>>max bandwidth. [...]
> >
> >> PDF files are generally much smaller than their Word document
> >> counterpart.
> >
> >In this vein, guess what happens to a W2K machine when you use office2000
> >to read a document you converted in staroffice from .rtf to .doc?
>
> Now, why exactly would you bother?
>
> >
> >Thats right kids, it locks up solid. Powercycle nessesary.
> >
> >What was it exactly that windows does well again?
> [deletia]
>
> I'll have to try that trick now... '-)
>
>
> --
>
> Common Standards, Common Ownership.
>
> The alternative only leads to destructive anti-capitalist
> and anti-democratic monopolies.
> |||
> / | \
------------------------------
From: Edward Rosten <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Games? Who cares about games?
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 01:28:59 +0000
"T. Max Devlin" wrote:
>
> Said [EMAIL PROTECTED] () in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Tue, 23 Jan
> 2001 19:53:40 -0000;
> >On Tue, 23 Jan 2001 02:39:05 GMT, T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>Said Donn Miller in comp.os.linux.advocacy on 22 Jan 2001 00:15:17
> >>>mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I don't know anyone that really plays games on their computers. is that out of
> >>>> the ordinary? When people mention games as an issue, I often wonder why.
> >>>
> >>>> I have a Nintendo for games, why would I waste a computer on games?
> >>
> >>One word: keyboard.
> >
> > Keyboards for the Dreamcast have been available for quite
> > some time now. Plus, the DC comes with a built in modem
> > and a web browser. There's even a 100BaseT NIC that's
> > supposed to be coming out for it as well.
> >
> >[deletia]
> >
> > You really don't follow this stuff, do you?
>
> No, why would I? I already have a keyboard, and its attached to a real
> computer. If I'd wanted a toy computer, I'd have a Macintosh, or WebTV.
I object to the term `toy computer' re: macs. The OS may be a bit of a
toy OS (not OS X, though) but the hardware is very good. A Linuxified
mac would make a pretty decent workstation.
I probably wouldn't get one, though as I never buy new computers for
myself: I always upgrade (which is why mine has a really wierd spec).
-Ed
--
Did you know that the reason that windows steam up in cold|Edward Rosten
weather is because of all the fish in the atmosphere? |u98ejr
- The Hackenthorpe Book of lies |@
|eng.ox.ac.uk
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: 3100 W2K Adv Servers deployed accross Europe
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 01:29:09 -0000
On Wed, 24 Jan 2001 07:14:09 +0800, nuxx <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> So you need to get extra stuff just so you can kill apps. Yeah, really
>> great. And how long has UNIX been shipping with the kill command?
>>
>It's on the W2k CD under support tools. Anyone who admins W2k should know
>this.
This is the Moron's Server OS. Why should they "need to know"?
Applets this tiny should just plain be installed by default.
Or, at the very least there should be a "admin server from
telnet session" option.
--
Ease of use should be associated with things like "human engineering"
and "use the right tool for the right job". And of course,
"reliability", since stopping to fix a problem or starting over due
to lost work are the very antithesis of "ease of use".
Bobby Bryant - COLA
|||
/ | \
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: 3100 W2K Adv Servers deployed accross Europe
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 01:30:07 -0000
On 23 Jan 2001 17:32:30 -0600, Conrad Rutherford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>"Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> Ayende Rahien wrote:
>> >
>> > "The Ghost In The Machine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in
>> > message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> >
>> > > And they *still* can't reliably kill a process. I tried to invoke,
>then
>> > > kill, Notepad on a very large text file (this on NT4); it took
>> > > several *minutes* to finally vanish. I doubt Win2k has improved
>> > > noticeably in this regard.
>> >
>> > Then get kill.exe or pskill.exe
>> > kill -f has yet to fail me.
>> > kill -f lsass.exe has interesting results when running as admin, btw.
>> > Don't try it at home.
>>
>> So you need to get extra stuff just so you can kill apps. Yeah, really
>> great. And how long has UNIX been shipping with the kill command?
>>
>
>And you need extra stuff to have a working GUI? How long has windows had a
>GUI?
About 5 years less than Unix.
Those abortions known as Windows 1.x and 2.x don't count.
--
Having seen my prefered platform being eaten away by vendorlock and
the Lemming mentality in the past, I have a considerable motivation to
use Free Software that has nothing to do with ideology and everything
to do with pragmatism.
Free Software is the only way to level the playing field against a
market leader that has become immune to market pressures.
The other alternatives are giving up and just allowing the mediocrity
to walk all over you or to see your prefered product die slowly.
|||
/ | \
------------------------------
From: "nuxx" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: 3100 W2K Adv Servers deployed accross Europe
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 09:31:22 +0800
>
> Ehhh, actually that's not quite true when you say that Terminal Services
> are slow, the protocol (RDP (I know nothing about ICA)) actually uses less
> bandwidth then X, especially trafic from the client to the
> TerminalServer is kept to the minimum. The result is that TS is faster
> than X on slow connections, on a 10+ Mbps network X feels much faster
> than TS. Ofcource telnet/ssh requires even less overhead if it was
> possible to do anything on NT in a CLI.
>
You can do most admin tasks in a Telnet session to a W2k server. Use the
supplied support tools, W2k server resource kit utilities and WSH (Windows
2000 Server Resource Kit should be required reading for any serious W2k
administrator). WTS or VNC and the RPC utilities do the job for the few
things you can't do from the CLI. I _very_ rarely touch any of my servers,
some are a long distance away :-)
I'm not trying to argue that W2k is as good as Unix for remote admin from
the CLI, because it isn't by a fair distance. MS have recognised this as a
serious weakness (finally) and are working towards fixing it. I believe
that you will be able to unload the GUI in Whistler(?) so they are hopefully
improving the CLI.
nuxx
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: 3100 W2K Adv Servers deployed accross Europe
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 01:30:56 -0000
On 23 Jan 2001 16:46:38 -0600, Conrad Rutherford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> On 22 Jan 2001 23:06:53 -0600, Jan Johanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >
>> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> >> On 22 Jan 2001 18:53:18 -0600, Jan Johanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >> >While little MiG tries to impress with some brochure sites...
>> >> >
>> >> >MediaWave is deploying over 3,100 windows 2000 advanced servers all
>over
>> >> >europe to handle multimillions of simultaneous audio and video
>streams.
>> >> >
>> >> >Talk about demanding! Is there even a streaming server available for
>> >linux?
>> >>
>> >> You mean besides RealVideo and Quicktime?
>> >
>> >there is a quicktime streaming server? I thought linux couldn't play
>> >quicktime?
>> >
>> >Forgot about realvideo, it's a loser format...
>>
>> Sour grapes from a Lemming.
>>
>> ...how pathetic.
>
>realvideo? ahahahaaa
I reiterate my previous observation.
"loser format" is about as Lemming as jargon can get.
--
Unless you've got the engineering process to match a DEC,
you won't produce a VMS.
You'll just end up with the likes of NT.
|||
/ | \
------------------------------
From: Edward Rosten <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Games? Who cares about games?
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 01:32:55 +0000
"Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
>
> Chris Lee wrote:
> >
> > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > says...
> > >
> > >
> > >Said Bruce Scott TOK in comp.os.linux.advocacy on 22 Jan 2001 14:59:31
> > >>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > >>mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >>>I don't know anyone that really plays games on their computers. is that
> > out of
> > >>>the ordinary? When people mention games as an issue, I often wonder why.
> > >>>
> > >>>I have a Nintendo for games, why would I waste a computer on games?
> > >>
> > >>I don't play any serious games on computers... no staying power :-)
> > >>
> > >>I play things like Asteroids, Mahjongg and Shisen-Sho under Linux (they
> > >>are KDE programs but well enough written to function properly under
> > >>fvwm2).
> > >>
> > >>I might play real wargames if any became available, but I have never
> > >>seen a computer wargame anywhere nearly as good as the board games from
> > >>wargaming's heyday in the late 1970s.
> > >
> > >Alpha Centauri.
> >
> > Nope. Alpha Centauri is a pale copy of the wargames that's being talked
> > about here. A serious Wargamer wouldn't touch Alpha Centauri with a ten-foot
> > pole.
>
> Speaking of such, I'm playing with an idea for being able to re-create
> ANY traditional board-wargame out there.
>
> the idea is that ever component of the game is an independant process,
> and all interactions between units (and the map board itself) are done
> via interprocess communication (probably named pipes).
Sounds interesting, and it is an idea I have thought about.
I think message passing is probably better, since otherwise you'd have
to have a pipe from every object to every object, which would rack up
pretty rapidly. Message passing requires that each object just has 1
message key, which would be substantially lower on resources.
Just a thought
-Ed
> ANYBODY interested in pursuing this, e-mail me.
--
Did you know that the reason that windows steam up in cold|Edward Rosten
weather is because of all the fish in the atmosphere? |u98ejr
- The Hackenthorpe Book of lies |@
|eng.ox.ac.uk
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Subject: Re: Games? Who cares about games?
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 01:34:45 -0000
On Wed, 24 Jan 2001 00:58:30 GMT, T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Said [EMAIL PROTECTED] () in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Tue, 23 Jan
>2001 19:53:40 -0000;
>>On Tue, 23 Jan 2001 02:39:05 GMT, T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>Said Donn Miller in comp.os.linux.advocacy on 22 Jan 2001 00:15:17
>>>>mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I don't know anyone that really plays games on their computers. is that out of
>>>>> the ordinary? When people mention games as an issue, I often wonder why.
>>>>
>>>>> I have a Nintendo for games, why would I waste a computer on games?
>>>
>>>One word: keyboard.
>>
>> Keyboards for the Dreamcast have been available for quite
>> some time now. Plus, the DC comes with a built in modem
>> and a web browser. There's even a 100BaseT NIC that's
>> supposed to be coming out for it as well.
>>
>>[deletia]
>>
>> You really don't follow this stuff, do you?
>
>No, why would I? I already have a keyboard, and its attached to a real
>computer. If I'd wanted a toy computer, I'd have a Macintosh, or WebTV.
Why would you?
So you can discuss these things without needing to speak out your ass.
Even a babbages or EB is likely to have Dreamcast keyboards on
display. All you have to do is pay a little attention to the
console section when you go in for your PC games fix.
However, you seem more interested in just dismissing it all out of
hand. The DC could have a killer representative of your favorite
game genre and you would have no clue whatsoever.
HELL, the PSX2 has USB and Firewire ports.
Your PC probably doesn't have Firewire ports.
The PSX2 probably has a better video subsystem too.
--
Also while the herd mentality is certainly there, I think the
nature of software interfaces and how they tend to interfere
with free choice is far more critical. It's not enough to merely
have the "biggest fraternity", you also need a way to trap people
in once they've made a bad initial decision.
|||
/ | \
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 20:34:36 -0500
From: Donn Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Linux is crude and inconsistant.
Martin Eden wrote:
> If you want to get technical: Solaris 8 is also known as Solaris 5.8, which
> is also known as SunOS 2.8. SunOS 1 (which was BSD based) was called Solaris
> 4.x but only after Solaris 5.x was released but while SunOS 1.x was still
> popular.
Sun has these screwy ways of versioning. Take JDK. JDK-1.2.2 was
called JDK 2, etc. Damned confusing. I suppose JDK-1.3.0 is really JDK
3, then.
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: Edward Rosten <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: 3100 W2K Adv Servers deployed accross Europe
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 01:35:32 +0000
Conrad Rutherford wrote:
>
> "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Ayende Rahien wrote:
> > >
> > > "The Ghost In The Machine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in
> > > message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >
> > > > And they *still* can't reliably kill a process. I tried to invoke,
> then
> > > > kill, Notepad on a very large text file (this on NT4); it took
> > > > several *minutes* to finally vanish. I doubt Win2k has improved
> > > > noticeably in this regard.
> > >
> > > Then get kill.exe or pskill.exe
> > > kill -f has yet to fail me.
> > > kill -f lsass.exe has interesting results when running as admin, btw.
> > > Don't try it at home.
> >
> > So you need to get extra stuff just so you can kill apps. Yeah, really
> > great. And how long has UNIX been shipping with the kill command?
> >
>
> And you need extra stuff to have a working GUI? How long has windows had a
> GUI?
Probably not as long as UNIX. And a GUI is installed on most UNIX's by
default (if the machine has a graphics card).
Besides, all your argument says is that something else is bad in a
similar way, so that makes up for your failings. That's just bogus.
-Ed
--
Did you know that the reason that windows steam up in cold|Edward Rosten
weather is because of all the fish in the atmosphere? |u98ejr
- The Hackenthorpe Book of lies |@
|eng.ox.ac.uk
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux is crude and inconsistant.
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 01:35:34 GMT
Said The Ghost In The Machine in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Tue, 23 Jan
2001 22:59:30 GMT;
>In comp.os.linux.advocacy, T. Max Devlin
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote
>on Mon, 22 Jan 2001 22:33:59 GMT
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>>Said [EMAIL PROTECTED] in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Mon, 22 Jan 2001
>>>On Mon, 22 Jan 2001 04:49:24 GMT, T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>Your argument is having been weaned on Windows; that's a story as old as
>>>>Bill Gate's monopoly. Yes, its all about the application barrier;
>>>>haven't you read the conviction?
>>>>
>>>>http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/cases/f3800/msjudgex.htm
>>>>http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/cases/f4400/4469.htm
>>>
>>>Personally I could care less one way or the other.
>>>
>>>I use a product because it works for me, not because of some mission.
>>
>>If you repeat that often enough, maybe it will magically be true, eh?
>
>It may depend on a number of factors, the simplest one being
>if flatfish+++++ is paid to troll us -- a consideration I
>feel is unlikely, albeit possible.
>
>However, why else would one use a product? If one thinks that it
>will work for him, he buys it and uses it -- or, if he's unlucky,
>he finds out it's pure junk (i.e., he's suckered) and buys another product.
>(One hopes that doesn't occur too often.)
One hopes that there is another product. If you're within shouting
distance of a monopolist's market, that doesn't occur too often.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
------------------------------
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